Libertarians Aim to Take Over a 'Free State'

Star Tribune ^ | June 10, 2003 | Bob von Sternberg

[Paleo Conservative]

The Feds would crush that FASTER than the LP

I don't know about that. Have you ever read how the Feds tried to impose their will on the Mormons in Utah?

[Jay D. Dyson]

Please make an effort to learn something about Libertarians before speaking about them.

So you deny that Libertarians have an overall "open border" policy?

-Jay

[Clint N. Suhks]

Liberaltarian sippery slope BUMP!

[A CA Guy]

They can rename that state ANARCHY LAND.

[Clint N. Suhks]

So you deny that Libertarians have an overall "open border" policy?

Actually I think Liberaltarians do, the difference between Conservatives and Liberaltarians is with societal boundaries NOT federal boundaries. Am I wrong?

[TheAngryClam]

Sign me up for it.

GUNS!

AND SEX!

AND DRUGS!

AND ROCK 'N ROLL!

I fail to see a problem yet.

[nopardons]

You're dead WRONG ! Libertarians are for open borders, amongst other things.

This pathetic " plan " has been in the works for years. Every month or so, some Libertarian loon writes the same article about this and it gets posted to FR.

[risk]

Somebody needs to straighten out the LP on immigration. It needs to stop, at least for a generation.

[xm177e2]

So you deny that Libertarians have an overall "open border" policy?

I would deny that Libertarians have taken over California!

[Uncle Fud]

"So you deny that Libertarians have an overall "open border" policy? "

I can't deny that, it's true.

It's also pretty much the same in practice as the "amnesty every couple of years" which is the Republican policy. So what about it?

[wallcrawlr]

I hit excerpt and this is what happened.

whacha gonna do??

[wallcrawlr]

See #31

[Poohbah]

It's also pretty much the same in practice as the "amnesty every couple of years" which is the Republican policy. So what about it?

When was the last amnesty?

[Kuksool]

{They spread like a virus}

Once liberals are done making a state a sewer, they move to other states to repeat the process. Just look at the migration of New Yorkers to Florida and Californians to Arizona as examples.

[Maelstrom]

I'm working on it.

The foundation rests on their (our?) inability to distinguish between immigrants desiring work and a disguised invading army.

With the end of Welfare State policies or a severe cut in their payouts, immigrants seeking to live off the government teat should be frightened away.

[LizardQueen]

Vermont won't work (I live there, so I know). The imported flatlander lefties would fight it tooth and nail, and the native Vermonters, who in many cases actually agree with the Libertarian position, would fight it on principle just because their state is being "invaded".

It already got invaded during the '70s by the hippies, and the natives are still none too happy about it. I think if they could they'd chuck all the imports out of the state and close the borders.


LQ

[risk]

With the end of Welfare State policies or a severe cut in their payouts, immigrants seeking to live off the government teat should be frightened away.

This is where we continue to diverge on that topic. Immigrants want a shot at being contenders. All of them. Some of that contention is for welfare; some of it is for competition; some of it is just because we have a decent place to live and they don't.

I'm sorry, but we need to provide for our own people today. We don't have time to sort out who will become a good American, a patriot who would lay down his life for this land, and those who would just come here because it's "nice." Hell yes, it's nice. Far nicer than anywhere else, I can tell you. Abolishing welfare will eliminate exactly 5% of the motivation for people to come. And potential enemies, including people who want to build Aztlan, or secede with the People's Republic of Kalifornia, or build their own New Yorkistan are indistinguishable.

Immigration: give it a rest. A long rest. There are several other beefs I have with the Libertarian party, but I won't go into it now.

[Maelstrom]

You can't care for people, even good people, by using the government as a 3rd party provider.

It fails to be anything but the worst sort of socialist program. Otherwise, I'm in full agreement about caring for our own people.

However, the Libertarian Party's official stance cannot distinguish a real immigrant from a covert invasion by real soldiers, let alone irregular special forces. I can't see cutting off immigration entirely because as of right now many our own young people have been indocrinated into a failed system of belief that will kill our economy.

[risk]

By "care" I didn't mean more socialism. We have more than enough of that. I would like to prevent Spanish from becoming our national language. I would like to make sure that Americans have jobs. I would like to have a way to determine immigrants aren't communist or Islamic agents before we let any more in. I would like to be sure that we have enough room in our country for ourselves. I would like to keep the pollution down. I want to hold onto the open spaces we have, or at least allow them to be settled by people who currently call themselves legal immigrants.

I want America for Americans -- those people who are Americans today. A few can come in, from our true Allies. Nations who have provided us troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, and have given unwavering support for our geopolitical goals.
Even then, the bar should be raised considerably. Why not require a college degree? How about an advanced degree? How about requiring solid, second-generation citizens to sponsor them? None of this "my mom is in Timbuktu, so I'd like to
bring her over."

[xdem]

So you deny that Libertarians have an overall "open border" policy?

Not at all.

http://www.lp.org/issues/immigration.html

The point is that illegal immigration is driven by large welfare payments. Were the welfare payments ended, there would be less immgration of people coming here only for handouts. People immigrating to the U.S. to work are far less a problem.

This is more realistic than our present immigration policy of mostly allowing in people who'll vote Democrat.

In other areas, the Libertarians are less realistic. I strongly disagree with the Libertarians' position on defense and foreign intervention. Even if we withdrew from the world, many would still hate and attack us.