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Wake the Bishops.org
http://wakethebishops.org/ ^ | 06.09.03

Posted on 06/09/2003 1:35:37 PM PDT by Coleus

Therefore I testify to you this day
that I am innocent of the blood of all of you,
for I did not shrink from declaring to you
the whole counsel of God.
Acts 20:26-27 [RSVCE]

LORD,

are You seen today in Your

preborn children?

If so, why have we Catholics allowed since 1973, more than 40 million such children in the United States to be horribly murdered without even anesthesia, by chemical poisoning, by saline burning, and by surgical dismemberment, right up to the time of birth? Are we concerned that these cold, brutal acts continue to be done at a rate of more than 4000 per day in this country? Will the Lord ask us one day what we did to stop this slaughter?

Is it a coincidence that abortion was legalized here after the United States Catholic bishops failed to proclaim and defend the teaching of the Church expressed in Humanae Vitae? Perhaps the answer is that we had no legal abortion before this collapse of authority because Catholic bishops would not stand for it, and politicians realized that fact.

Today there are “Catholic” politicians who say they are personally opposed to abortion, but who vote to continue these murders. Should they be publicly excommunicated? There are twelve of them in the U.S. Senate today, and one of them is from “Catholic” Louisiana. Are many bishops today, such as Archbishop Alfred Hughes of New Orleans, leading the church militant, or the church passive, in the face of this monstrous evil?

About excommunication, Archbishop Hughes has stated:

“There’s a public dimension to this, and a private dimension, so this is a matter for prudential judgment.”

“Bishops weigh these carefully in search of what is best in each situation for the community in their care.”[1]

This “weighing” goes on and on, while at least ten preborn children are viciously murdered every working day in the New Orleans area. How much more time is needed for this careful weighing by the archbishop, when this killing has continued for thirty (30) years?

Somebody has to do something to wake up the bishops. But what?

[Next]

This website is maintained by Wake the Bishops, a group of lay Catholics who have seen attempts at communication through ordinary diocesan channels produce absolutely no results over the years. We respect and hold in reverence the office of bishop, established by Our Lord Jesus Christ Himself for the teaching and government of His Church. It is because of this respect and reverence that we undertake to do everything in our power to wake the bishops for the good of the Church, of the unborn, and of the bishops themselves, who must answer to God for the way in which they fulfill their duties. It is with great “fear and trembling” at the thought of our own appearance before the heavenly Judge that we dare to correct those in authority over us.

Send us your comments.

[1] Statement by Fr. William Maestri, archdiocesan spokesman, quoted in The Times-Picayune, May 10, 2003



TOPICS: Culture/Society; US: Louisiana
KEYWORDS: abortion; abortionlist; bishops; catholic; catholiclist; democrats; politicians; prolife; republicans; vote
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To: Thorondir
Strange enough that they all speak with one voice,

They do. If Massachusetts Catholics are going to re-elect a man who killed a woman, they're not going to think twice about voting for him over abortion.

And they haven't, as the last 30 years have proven.

41 posted on 06/12/2003 7:37:11 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: Coleus
they seem dead on the abortion issues

I don't think that is entirely accurate. They tend to work on the individual level. If a person is willing to talk to the chaplain, a lot of things can be straightened out. Unfortunately many these days don't talk to the chaplain or even go to church or whatever meeting place their flavor of religion offers. So they are missing out. The clergy is doing everything they can to the best of their ability to encourage people to swing on by and check it out, but it's a tough sell these days.

42 posted on 06/12/2003 7:43:10 PM PDT by RightWhale (gazing at shadows)
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To: RightWhale
You are talking about a priest with a one-on-one issue and that is his job, the salvation of souls. The Bishop represents the entire diocese contending with many moral issues in the public--including abortion. It's his job to repudiate the pro-abortion politicians and if you look at the website, they are "mandated" by the pope and their own writings to do so.
43 posted on 06/12/2003 7:47:45 PM PDT by Coleus (God is Pro Life and Straight http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/notify?detach=1)
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To: Thorondir
You can sign the petition, it's a start
http://www.cathfam.org/cfexcom/Excom.html

No Catholic Politician can be excommunicated merely by voting for abortion. Those who "procure" an abortion are excommunicated.
44 posted on 06/12/2003 7:52:22 PM PDT by Coleus (God is Pro Life and Straight http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/notify?detach=1)
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To: Coleus
That's right. I don't know much about bishops. The only one I ever heard was Sheen, and that was a long time ago, 50 years. I think he would have been out front on this issue. I am really disappointed with other preachers who have a large audience, people like Rev Jackson. He could do a lot of good on this. A lot of the TV preachers don't do the job either due to a lot of baggage.

I was just listening to the Michael Savage Show and he was getting downright erudite. He says that we don't have the kinds of leaders like philosophers, literary men, artists now that we used to. The man on the tiller has fallen asleep and fell overboard. He was an excellent sailer, but not the most alert person. We are adrift.

45 posted on 06/12/2003 7:59:45 PM PDT by RightWhale (gazing at shadows)
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To: GatorGirl; maryz; *Catholic_list; afraidfortherepublic; Antoninus; Aquinasfan; Askel5; livius; ...
Ping.
46 posted on 06/12/2003 8:01:09 PM PDT by narses ("The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace" Francis Carindal Arinze of Nigeria)
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To: RightWhale
I listen to Mike Savage all the time. And watch his show on sat.
47 posted on 06/12/2003 8:08:30 PM PDT by Coleus (God is Pro Life and Straight http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/notify?detach=1)
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To: Coleus
No Catholic Politician can be excommunicated merely by voting for abortion.

This statement of yours stands in contradiction to Catholic faith. One does not need a formal declaration to excommunicate himself from the sacraments. Mortal sin does the trick quite nicely. Review your catechism. It is a mortal sin to support mortal sin.
48 posted on 06/12/2003 9:41:42 PM PDT by Thorondir
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To: sinkspur
Why am I so pissed all the time?

Re: When Priests Don't Run the Parish
From sinkspur | 05/19/2003 6:12 AM PDT replied

You seem to only crawl onto FR in the middle of the night, when most normal human beings are asleep.

If I do nothing but get under your very thin skin, then my sojourn on FR is complete. So, thanks for letting me know that I remain an irritant.

I will continue......


One could suppose it's because of your childish attitude as you emailed me above, but it's more because of the fact that you are an enemy of my Church.
49 posted on 06/12/2003 9:50:20 PM PDT by Thorondir
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To: MHGinTN
Thanks for the heads up!
50 posted on 06/12/2003 9:54:40 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Thorondir
You are very wrong and provided no facts in your post and a Catholic is not excommunicated for committing a mortal sin, that's what confession is all about. I suspect that you are not Catholic. I do not need to review my Catechism, thank you.

Here is the Canon Law (notice the word "procures")

OFFENSES AGAINST HUMAN LIFE AND FREEDOM

Can. 1397 -- One who commits homicide or who fraudulently or forcibly kidnaps, detains, mutilates or seriously wounds a person is to be punished with the deprivations and prohibitions mentioned in can. 1336 in accord with the seriousness of the offense; however, homicide against the persons mentioned in can. 1370 is punished by the penalties specified there.

Can. 1398 -- A person who procures a successful abortion incurs an automatic (latae sententiae) excommunication.

[The Latin original reads: Can. 1398 -- Qui abortum procurat, effectu secuto, in excommunicationem latae sententiae incurrit.]

An excommunication is the heaviest spiritual sanction the Church can render. So long as it is in force, it bars the excommunicated person from the church community and from receiving most of the sacraments, as well as from all public associations affiliated with the Church. An automatic (or "latae sententiae") excommunication is an especially severe penalty. The nine or so latae sententiae excommunications in the Code are reserved for use against certain things the Church particularly wants to deter, like assaulting the pope (can.1370) and priests divulging matters heard in the confessional (can.1388). Most excommunications can only follow a tribunal trial (can. 1425, §1, 2°). But latae sententiae penalties operate like a bill of attainder in that there is no "process" for their imposition--the fact that the person voluntarily performed the proscribed act, in the absence of some exception provided in the law, means the penalty is incurred. An excommunication can usually be lifted by the local bishop (the "local ordinary") and sometimes by a priest during confession (can. 1354-1357).


The canons of the 1917 and 1983 Codes apply to all direct abortions. Abortions incident to otherwise lawful medical care that is required to save the life of the mother (e.g. chemotherapy, hysterectomy of a cancerous uterus) are given an interpretive exception from the rule under the priciple of "double effect."

As in all penal laws there are qualifications as to who is subject to a law--Canon 1321, and following, of the 1983 Code makes such provisions.

Irregularity

From the earliest days of the Church, men who had shed human blood, no matter how justifiable or blameless the act may have been, were excluded from entering the priesthood (e.g., Decretum Gratiani by Pope Innocent I in the year 404). This traditionally embraced abortion as a form of homicide. However, in 1211, Pope Innocent III issued the decree Sicut ex, which limited the irregularity incurred from abortion to abortions involving a fetus that was not "animated" or "ensouled." This exception was subsequently abrogated as both of the modern codes have provisions that apply to all abortions (can. 985, §4 in the 1917 Code, and can.1041, 4° in the 1983 Code).

And the Catechism:
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a5.htm#2270
51 posted on 06/12/2003 9:56:23 PM PDT by Coleus (God is Pro Life and Straight http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/notify?detach=1)
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To: Thorondir
One could suppose it's because of your childish attitude as you emailed me above, but it's more because of the fact that you are an enemy of my Church.

"Your" Church?

It's my Church too, though I know you despise me for claiming membership in it.

You're a very angry, vindictive man.

You should seek help. God can heal that bitterness, and He will if you just let it go.

52 posted on 06/12/2003 10:06:28 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: Coleus
Why does this whole discussion remind me of the Pharisees in the times of Paul? Or even more, the time following the handing down of the Commandments and the subsequent Levitical Laws?
53 posted on 06/12/2003 10:06:55 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote Life Support for others.)
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To: Thorondir
Let's stop the nastiness!

What's your response to my e-mail?

54 posted on 06/12/2003 10:16:48 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: sinkspur
Oh, that's sweet! Take a nasty swipe at me in post 49 then call for me to stop.

I'm not stupid, and I gave up hit and run tactics like that when I left the sandbox behind me.

I will continue to stand up for the Church and for the unborn, whether you and your ilk like it or not.
55 posted on 06/13/2003 2:55:20 AM PDT by Thorondir
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To: MHGinTN
BTTT!!!!!
56 posted on 06/13/2003 3:02:28 AM PDT by E.G.C.
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To: Coleus
A person who committs a mortal sin is fallen from the state of grace and into the state of mortal sin and is not elligible to receive any sacrament but confession. He is out of communion with the Church. This is what I was talking about, not formal excommunication. That should have been made clear to you. And you know it is a mortal sin to assist or give consent to a mortal sin. What do you think voting for the murder of human children is if not consent to those mortal sins of murder?
57 posted on 06/13/2003 3:14:55 AM PDT by Thorondir
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To: Mo1
the actual final step would be for bishops to state that anyone who supported one of these candidates publicly would be denied the Sacraments. There are still a lot of Irish Catholic union leaders. Let's see if they are Catholic first, or Democrats.
58 posted on 06/13/2003 5:05:08 AM PDT by steve8714
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To: Mo1
No, not all of them. Focus on the leaders first, trying to convert the masses.

I firmly believe the one nation that most needs Catholic missionaries is the United States.

59 posted on 06/13/2003 6:35:42 AM PDT by Petronski (I'm not always cranky.)
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To: Thorondir
I will continue to stand up for the Church and for the unborn, whether you and your ilk like it or not.

It must be nice to not be like the rest of men.

60 posted on 06/13/2003 6:48:43 AM PDT by sinkspur
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