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Partial birth abortion: not for the faint of heart
The Illinois Leader ^ | June 06, 2003 | Jill Stanek

Posted on 06/08/2003 8:10:01 PM PDT by 7 x 77

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The U.S. House of Representatives voted Tuesday to ban the partial birth abortion (pba) procedure, also known as the D&X, or dilitation and extraction, abortion procedure.

The Illinois delegation's opposition to the ban was bi-partisan: Congressman Mark Kirk was the only Republican to oppose the measure, while seven Democratic U.S. Representatives -- Davis, Emanuel, Evans, Gutierrez, Jackson, Rush and Schakowsky -- also rejected the ban.

The U.S. Senate voted to ban the procedure earlier this spring, so the initiative now goes to President George Bush to sign into law, which he has publicly stated he will do. Former President Bill Clinton previously vetoed the ban twice when it was sent to his desk by Congress.

Pro-lifers sometimes appear to relish describing the ghastliness of the pba procedure, so much so that pro-"choicers" may think they are embellishing some of the details of that which they describe.

So, following are court testimonies from two medical professionals who have participated in the commission of pba.

First is Dr. Leroy Carhart, who owns an abortion clinic in Nebraska. On July 17, 1997, Carhart testified in a federal district courtroom in a challenge to Nebraska's ban on partial-birth abortions (DOC. #4.97CV3205). ["Question" refers to one of the lawyers challenging the law.]

Question: Are there times when you don't remove the fetus intact?

Carhart: Yes, sir.

Question: Can you tell me when that occurs?

Carhart: That occurs when the tissue fragments, or frequently when you rupture the membranes, an arm will spontaneously prolapse through the os... when you rupture the waters, usually something prolapses through the uterine, through the cervical os, not always, but very often an extremity will.

Question: What do you do then?

Carhart: My normal course would be to dismember that extremity and then go back and try to take the fetus out either foot or skull first, whatever end I can get to first.

Question: How do you go about dismembering that extremity?

Carhart: Just traction and rotation, grasping the portion that you can get ahold of which would be usually somewhere up the shaft of the exposed portion of the fetus, pulling down on it... and rotating to dimember the shoulder or the hip or whatever it would be. Sometimes you will get one leg and you can't get the other leg out.

Question: In that situation, are you, when you pull on the arm and remove it, is the fetus still alive?

Carhart: Yes.

Question: Do you consider an arm to be a substantial portion of the fetus?

Carhart: In the way I read it, if I lost my arm, that would be a substantial loss to me. I think I would have to interpret it that way.

Question: And then what happens next after you remove the arm? You then try to remove the rest of the fetus?

Carhart: Then I would go back and attempt to either bring the feet down or bring the skull down, or even sometimes you bring the other arm down and remove that also and then get the feet down.

Question: At what point... does the fetus die during that process?

Carhart: I don't really know. I know that the fetus is alive during the process most of the time because I can see fetal heartbeat on the ultrasound.

The Court: Counsel, for what it's worth, it still is unclear to me with regard to the intact D&E [aka pba, or D&X] when fetal demise occurs.

Question: Okay, I will try to clarify that. In the procedure of an intact D&E where you would start foot first, with the situation where the fetus is presented feet first, tell me how you are able to get the feet out first.

Carhart: Under ultrasound, you can see the extremities. You know what is what. You know what the foot is, you know what the arm is, you know what the skull is. By grabbing the feet and pulling down on it or by grabbing a knee and pulling down on it, usually you can get one leg out, get the other leg out and bring the fetus out....

Question: At the time that you bring out the feet in this example, is the fetus still alive?

Carhart: Yes.

Question: Then what's the next step you do?

Carhart: I didn't mention it. I should. I usually attempt to grasp the cord first and divide the cord, if I can do that.

Question: What is the cord?

Carhart: The cord is the structure that transports the blood... and it gives the fetus its only source of oxygen. So if you divide the cord, the fetus will eventually die, but whether this takes five minutes or 15 minutes and when that occurs, I don't think anyone really knows.

Question: Let's take the situation where you haven't divided the cord... and you have begun to remove a living fetus feet first. What happens next?

Carhart: We remove the feet and continue with traction on the feet until the abdomen and the thorax come through the cavity. At that point... you have to bring the shoulders down, but you can get enough of them outside... and then at that point... the base of the fetal skull is usually in the cervical canal.

Question: What do you do next?

Carhart: And you can reach that, and that's where you would rupture the fetal skull to some extent and aspirate the contents out.

Question: At what point in that process does fetal demise occur between initial... removal of the feet or legs and the crushing of the skull, or I'm sorry, the decompressing of the skull?

Carhart: Well, you know, again, this is where I'm not sure what fetal demise is. I mean, I honestly have to share your concern, your Honor. You can remove the cranial contents, and the fetus will still have a heartbeat for several seconds or several minutes, so is the fetus alive? I would have to say probably, although I don't think it has any brain function, so it's brain dead at that point.

Question: So the brain death might occur when you begin suctioning out of the cranium?

Carhart: I think brain death would occur, because the suctioning to remove contents is only two or three seconds, so somewhere in that period of time, obviously not when you penetrate the skull, because people get shot in the head and they don't die immediately from that, if they are going to die at all, so that probably is not sufficient to kill the fetus, but I think removing the brain contents eventually will.

The following is an excerpt from the testimony of Nurse Brenda Pratt Shafer, before the Subcommittee on the Constitution Committee on the Judiciary U.S. House of Representatives, on March 21, 1996:

I am a registered nurse... with 14 years of experience. In...September, 1993, Kimberly Quality Care [nursing agency] asked me to accept assignment at the Women's Medical Center, which is operated by Dr. Martin Haskell....

The mother was six months pregnant (26 1/2 weeks). A doctor told her that the baby had Down Syndrome and she decided to have an abortion. She came in the first two days to have the laminaria inserted and changed, and she cried the whole time. On the third day she came in to receive the partial-birth procedure.

Dr. Haskell brought the ultrasound in and hooked it up so that he could see the baby. On the ultrasound screen, I could see the heart beating. As Dr. Haskell watched the baby on the ultrasound screen....

Dr. Haskell went in with forceps and grabbed the baby's legs and pulled them down into the birth canal. Then he delivered the baby's body and the arms - everything but the head. The doctor kept the baby's head just inside the uterus.

The baby's little fingers were clasping and unclasping, and his feet were kicking. Then the doctor stuck the scissors through the back of his head, and the baby's arms jerked out in a flinch, a startle reaction, like a baby does when he thinks that he might fall.

The doctor opened up the scissors, stuck a high-powered suction tube into the opening and sucked the baby's brains out. Now the baby was completely limp. I was really completely unprepared for what I was seeing. I almost threw up as I watched the doctor do these things.

Dr. Haskell delivered the baby's head. He cut the umbilical cord and delivered the placenta. He threw that baby in a pan, along with the placenta and the instruments he'd used. I saw the baby move in the pan. I asked another nurse and she said it was just "reflexes."

I have been a nurse for a long time and I have seen a lot of death... But in all my professional years, I had never witnessed anything like this.

The woman wanted to see her baby, so they cleaned up the baby and put it in a blanket and handed the baby to her. She cried the whole time, and she kept saying, "I'm so sorry, please forgive me!" I was crying too. I couldn't take it. That baby boy had the most perfect angelic face I have ever seen.

Illinois Congressional votes on the 2003 Ban Against Partial Birth Abortion were:

Democrat

Costello - Y Davis - N Emanuel - N Evans - N Gutierrez - N Jackson - N Lipinski - Y Rush - N Schakowsky - N

Republican

Biggert - Y Crane - Y Hastert - Y Hyde - Y Johnson - Y Kirk - N LaHood - Y Manzullo - Y Shimkus - Y Weller - Y


TOPICS: Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: abortion; partial; pba; pbaban2003

1 posted on 06/08/2003 8:10:02 PM PDT by 7 x 77
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To: 7 x 77
Link has moving drawing which gives an explicit look at partial birth kill.

Can't believe Mark Kirk, GOP Rep from Chicago's North Shore, could vote against the ban.
2 posted on 06/08/2003 8:12:22 PM PDT by 7 x 77
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To: 7 x 77
The woman wanted to see her baby, so they cleaned up the baby and put it in a blanket and handed the baby to her. She cried the whole time, and she kept saying, "I'm so sorry, please forgive me!" I was crying too. I couldn't take it. That baby boy had the most perfect angelic face I have ever seen.
3 posted on 06/08/2003 8:18:36 PM PDT by xJones
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To: 7 x 77
Everyone who voted against that ban has already sold their soul to Satan for the power and wealth they received. They will move quickly to affirm the antichrist when he arises.
4 posted on 06/08/2003 8:20:01 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Even if the government took all your earnings, you wouldn’t be, in its eyes, a slave.)
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To: 7 x 77
It's about G**d***** time. And I mean that literally.

Former President Bill Clinton previously vetoed the ban twice when it was sent to his desk by Congress.

Utterly unconscionable. I found the actions of this pig masquerading as a "leader" utterly revolting on those occasions, and I still find them utterly revolting years after the fact. It still boggles the mind, even today.

Some of you folks who read my 'vanity' thread the other day might be surprised that I feel so strongly about partial birth abortion. But there it is.

5 posted on 06/08/2003 8:29:14 PM PDT by Luke Skyfreeper
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To: 7 x 77

Mother of God!.....how evil can you be to want,support and perform this horrendous brutality on a wee baby. Lord Jesus have mercy on us.
6 posted on 06/08/2003 8:31:41 PM PDT by SouthernFreebird
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To: 7 x 77
Anyone who is truly not moved by the above description is cold hearted. Prayers go to that woman whom the nurse described.
7 posted on 06/08/2003 8:32:12 PM PDT by kstewskis ("political correctness is intellectual terrorism...." Mel Gibson)
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To: 7 x 77

8 posted on 06/08/2003 8:32:40 PM PDT by Bubba_Leroy
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To: 7 x 77
God how sick...
9 posted on 06/08/2003 8:39:50 PM PDT by holyh2o
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: 7 x 77
Doctors' oath... First Do No Harm...

Whatever happened to that?
11 posted on 06/08/2003 8:52:52 PM PDT by buffyt (Can you say President Hillary, Mistress of Darkness? Me Neither!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
You are 100% RIGHT!
12 posted on 06/08/2003 8:53:25 PM PDT by buffyt (Can you say President Hillary, Mistress of Darkness? Me Neither!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: kstewskis
Prayers go to that woman whom the nurse described.

Pray God has mercy on her, cause any Mother who would PAY for that to happen to her baby is gonna need all the prayers she can get. I feel disgust for her....my sympathy is with the not so perfect child she didn't want and murdered.

13 posted on 06/08/2003 8:54:51 PM PDT by SouthernFreebird
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To: 7 x 77
this is too disgusting to read through. I'm glad I'm not a pro-life liberal who feels compelled to vote for Democrats and tries to ignore this monstrosity.
14 posted on 06/08/2003 10:26:56 PM PDT by votelife (FREE MIGUEL ESTRADA!)
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To: SouthernFreebird
Pray God has mercy on her, cause any Mother who would PAY for that to happen to her baby is gonna need all the prayers she can get. I feel disgust for her....my sympathy is with the not so perfect child she didn't want and murdered.

It's too bad you feel disgust for her. Really too bad. The article showed she had obvious remorse, during, and after the fact. Was it terrible what she did, of course. But, I believe God has a lot more forgiveness and mercy for this woman than you do. Which is a good thing for all of us.

I maintain many prayers of mercy and God's forgiveness go out to her...And for God's love to protect that child for eternity.

15 posted on 06/08/2003 10:47:20 PM PDT by kstewskis ("political correctness is intellectual terrorism...." Mel Gibson)
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To: buffyt
It was replaced by:

MONEY

16 posted on 06/09/2003 2:58:29 AM PDT by chiefqc
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To: SouthernFreebird
A recent letter I wrote to Bush.

Dear President Bush, With the Surpeme Court session getting ready to close, it may well be time for perhaps the most important domestic decision of your presidency: the appointment of a Supreme Court Justice(s). The main reason why I supported you in 2000 and why I wanted Daschle out of power in 02 (and 04) has to do with the courts. I want America courts to interpret law, not write law. During your presidential campaign you said Thomas and Scalia were your two model justices. Those are excellent models. The High Court needs more like them. Clarence Thomas recently said to students that the tough cases were when what he wanted to do was different from what the law said. And he goes by the law. This should be a model philosophy for our justices. Your father, President Bush lost his reelection campaign for 3 main reasosn, as far as I can see. 1. he broke the no new taxes pledge 2. David Souter 3. Clinton convinced people we were in a Bush recession (which we had already come out of by the time Clinton was getting sworn in)

I urge you to learn from all three of these: 1. on taxes, you're doing great. Awesome job on the tax cut. 2. good job so far on judicial appointments. I want to see more of a fight for Estrada, Owen, and Pickering, but I commend you on your nominations. 3. by staying engaged in the economic debate you'll serve yourself well

I have been thoroughly impressed with your handling of al Queida, Iraq, and terrorism. You have inspired confidence and have shown great leadership.

But I want to remind you that your Supreme Court pick(s) will be with us LONG after you have departed office. I urge you to avoid the tempation to find a "compromise" pick. Go for a Scalia or Thomas. Don't go for an O'Connor or Kennedy. To be specific, get someone who is pro-life. Roe v Wade is one of the worst court decisions I know of, and it's the perfect example of unrestrained judicial power.

I know the temptation will be tremendous on you to nominate a moderate. But remember who your true supporters are. I am not a important leader or politician. I am "simply" a citizen who has been an enthusiatic supporter of you. I am willing to accept compromise in many areas of government but I will watch your Court nomiantions extremely closely. What the Senate Dems are doing right now is disgusting, but as the President you have the bully pulpit to stop it. Democrats will back down if you turn up serious heat on them.

Moreover, I think public opinion is shifting towards the pro-life position. Dems will want you to nominate a moderate, but almost all will vote against you anyways. Pro-choice Repubs will likely still vote for you if you nominate a Scalia, after all, you campaigned on it. So Mr. President, I urge you to stick with your campaign statements and nominate justices who believe in judicial restraint, like Scalia and Thomas.

Happy Memorial Day and may God bless you and your family.
17 posted on 06/09/2003 5:33:43 PM PDT by votelife (FREE MIGUEL ESTRADA!)
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