In defense of Islam

Israel Insider ^ | 6/8/2003 | Jonathan Eric Lewis

[freedom44]

You really should be ashamed of yourself for such incredibly Nazi-like idles. People like you need to be and locked up in some extensive prison .. you're one step away from being a serial killer and if you had power you would be.

[nightdriver]

".....And a 110-year-old ruling is almost certainly also irrelevant in NY in the face of subsequent Supreme Court cases."

Such as..?

Faulty reasoning. You could say the same thing about the Constitution itself.

[Lefty-NiceGuy]

Wow your post has been a magnet for stupid posts!!! This opinion for someone that doesn't count for much here: I appreciate what you're doing, unlike the facists and religious zealots.

We may ask ourselves questions like is islam compatible with a modern secularized civil society. We believe this is true for Christianity; though some of these posts make you wonder. Sure there are many moderate muslims that seem totaly alright with it, but when they fall back to thier fundamentalism are they better or worse than other religions?

From the bits I know I know that Islam demands tolerance for Christians and Jews (though not others), but there are also passages in the Koran that contribute to distrust of the Jews and Christians.

[Michael2001]

Just because there are some nice Muslims who ignore the violent aspects of their religion, doesn't mean the religion itself isn't messed up.

[DannyTN]

Having said that the Jews had committed a great evil by failing to recognize Jesus, I thought I would back up that claim with propheses identified by a Jew who recognizes Jesus. The link to his site, follows the post

Why I as a Jew believe Jesus is the promised Messiah of Israel

Taken from Psalm 2 -- Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his Messiah... Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession... Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

Note: Messiah is God's Son. He will be rejected by the world's rulers yet will rule the world himself. The faithful are instructed to trust and worship [kiss] the Messiah.

Taken from Isaiah 53; Circa 740 B.C.-- Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? ...He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. ...he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows... But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. ...For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was stricken ...though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth. Yet...the LORD makes his life a guilt offering,...he will...prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand. ... my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities. ...he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Note: Messiah is to die for the sins of the nation as a substitutionary sacrifice.

Zechariah 12:10 -- And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Note: The crucified [pierced] one is identified as "me" (God) and "him" (God's firstborn son) at the same time.

Zechariah 13:6 -- And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

Psalm 22:16 -- For dogs have encircled me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

Taken from the 16th Psalm -- I have set the LORD always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved. Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope. For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.

Taken from Isaiah's 53rd chapter -- And he made his grave with the wicked,... when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. ...Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong;

Note: The executed Messiah lives again (resurrection).

Taken from the Prophet Daniel's 9th Chapter -- Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven sevens, and threescore and two sevens: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two sevens shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Note: The Messiah of Israel is to die before the destruction of the 2nd Temple. The 2nd Temple was destroyed in 70 AD.

Micah 5:2 -- But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Note: The Messiah will be both eternal (from of old, from everlasting) and yet born in Bethlehem.

Ecclesiastes 7:20 -- For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not. 1 Kings 8:46 -- If they sin against thee, (for there is no man that sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, so that they carry them away captives unto the land of the enemy, far or near;

Ezekiel 18:4 -- Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Leviticus 17:11 -- For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

Genesis 1:26 -- And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Genesis 3:22 -- And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Genesis 11:7 -- Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

Isaiah 48:16 -- Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

Note: There is only one God; yet in some fascinating way he is plural, 3 in one.

© 1997 Steve Shermett http://www.lehrmangroup.com/BethSarShalom/whyBelieve.html

[Imagine]

Oh, don't be so stupid. Labeling people nazis doesn't work anymore. So we're supposed to sit around and let terrorists bomb busses and schools. We've heard it before -- starve the children, put old people out on the street and now we're nazies. Get a life. Or, maybe you can't help being stupid?

[freedom44]

Muslims have been here for hundreds of years.
There are millions of them here (estimates 5-8 million).

Although there are extremists who hate our country there are also many loyal ones serving in our armed forces, in the CIA, and Defense Department.

I'm one of the first people who advocated absolutely no human rights for fundamentalists, but i know there is a huge difference between fundamentalists and those in Turkey or those Students in Iran.

You may think so, but our Presidents not stupid. If he hoenstly thought there was a threat from US Muslims he'd say it instead of saying they're 'law abiding citizens' who love this country.

True; we have to deal with 'radical' Islam, but 'radical' Islam is far different then Islam as a whole.

Moderates are battling extremists on a daily basis in the Middle East and extremists have killed more MUSLIMS than any other religion.

More articles you read the more you realize that there is a constant battle between the extremists (who are very violent), and the moderates (who use civil disobedience).

[Imagine]

Until I (we) see evidence that your so-called moderate muslims do not indeed advocate violence to advance there religion, I remain unconvinced. Silence on these acts of terror is support in my opinion. The more I read, the more I see the violent form of islam advancing throughout the world. Unless the peaceful muslims speak up forcefully, they will become casualities of the battle the violent muslims advocate. I remain unconvinced and I remain unsympathetic.

[freedom44]

Who exactly is 'we'?
In Polls the majority of Americans think Muslims are law-abiding and good citizens, upwards of 70 percent. Our President has consistently said the same thing.

Now i'm guessing you aren't a Republican, but part of some radical small group because you sure don't agree with anything the Republican party to say about this issue.

[freedom44]

Fifty-seven percent see it as a peaceful religion — a majority, but not an overwhelming one on such a fundamental question. Fairly few, 14 percent, think mainstream Islam encourages violence against non-Muslims, while 29 percent are unsure.
I'm in stong agreement with you about violence, and extremism in Islam and it must be dealt with swiftly by whatever means possible. There can be negotiations with hard-liners. I believe 89 percent of Americans agree with this issue.
Thirty-eight percent think Islam has more violent extremists than other religions, and an additional 17 percent are unsure whether this is the case. (Forty-one percent say it has about the same number, while 5 percent think it has fewer.)

So although there are extremists movements there are also moderate movements. 500,000 people in Morocco marched against terror after the attacks, where do you see that in Europe? The largest Muslim organization in Indonesia (over 50 million members) called for the extermination of radicals and massive steps have been taken. Students, Scholars, Journalists, Women have all spoken for reformation, democracy, human rights in Iran. Iranian carried candle light vigils after 9/11, only to be attacked by the hard-liners in the regime. In Turkey, Secularists are consistently battling fundamentalists in perserving their consitution.
The battle against the two is constant.

[Imagine]

Well F_44, I see you actually may be sincere in your thinking. The problem with citing statistics on these matters is : 1) we're not dealing with toothpaste or laundry detergent, 2) views about "peaceful" or "violent" are meaningless in the context of a survey; 3) You CAN'T negotiate with with a cult in which a significant portion believe they must either convert you to their religion or kill you.

If I were part of such a cult and truly believed in peace, I would leave it to start my own religion AND/OR commence to eliminate those that bring discgrace to my "religion." Until I see a major effort by "peaceful" muslims (if there really are such a thing) I still maintain that the whole cult must be eliminated.

The evidence is mounting about the dangers of islam. We either confront the issues directly or we will suffer random violence against innocent civilians and children throughout this country. I fear the response Americans will take in response to multiple attacks upon our fellow citizens.

Who will care about your statistics when a nuke goes off in LA or NY? Or the Holland Tunnel is blown up during rush hour? Or a massive explosion in a college basketball game and tens of thousands die? Of course, no one -- Americans will be vengeful. This is not a marketing survey to measure degrees of confidence.

The violent muslims will intimidate and/or kill their own who advocate non-violent means. There is no hope in negotiation.

Shipping muslims back to muslim country will be the juncture where those who are peaceful will renounce their violent "religion" to stay in America. At that time, peaceful muslims will have taken a stand and they will find a friend in me. Until that happens, I'm not very sympathetic.

[WesternRepresentative]

Although it may appear complicated, it is not. Western people are sophisticated, but yet simple...

First, you need to understand why America came to be…

It is all about freedom. Land of the Free and Home of the Brave.

Former Britons wanted freedom from taxes and freedom from government. They sailed overseas and established the United States of America with 13 states and became Independent from England in 1776.

Britons, now known as Americans, wanted a more free society. Freedom from taxes, freedom of choice, freedom of speech and the freedom to choose, yet still instilling traditional Christian/Roman values. The spirit of this freedom was influenced by moral behavior and beliefs.

Hence quotes from many Christian bibles; “Do onto others as you'll have done onto you”.

America simply believes in freedom. Americans believe in the freedom of choice within moral guidelines and the established laws and community.

America is about free and mixed points of view, religion and ethnicities with a majority rule. This freedom allows conservatives with traditional values (Republican). This freedom allows liberals with innovation values (Liberals). The majority belief/opinion decides the direction of the country. Unfortunately, some Americans believe that this same freedom may have also degraded American society with pornography, homosexuality, drugs and crime. But it is clear that this same freedom has much out-weighed the negatives it can bring.

The United States of America is about tolerance of difference. The United States of America is about freedom of the people. Many Americans may not agree with a particular behavior, belief or religion, but they exercise tolerance and the freedom to express. Americans rely on the majority rule and morality to guide the direction of their country. In the United States of America, the country is ruled by the majority people in the form of representative elections.

Because of these various facts, a civil war was waged within the United States in 1861-1865. The main issue had to do with the morality of slavery. Led by Republican Abram Lincoln, the following question became the central issue; “Should persons from Africa become labor slaves of Americans?” The civil war was won by Americans who believed slavery was inhuman and immoral. The war was won by the North (led by Republican Abram Lincoln) and new laws were enacted to allow the freedom of slaves (Today known as African Americans).

Slightly before WWII, the citizens of Germany wanted to control or rid the widely and rapidly growing homosexual movement occurring in 1935. Although Adolf Hitler gains control of the Nazi party in 1921, laws became in affect banning gay and other ethnic groups in 1935. From this point, Germany began to exercise its intolerant belief towards gays and Jews by placing them into concentration camps. Shortly after that, it has been estimated tens of thousands of gays and over six million Jews have been exterminated because of this intolerant belief.

In 1948, after WWII, the remaining Jews needed were homesteaded and protected by the United States of America and Britain from the holocaust enacted by Germany. The Jews were to be returned to the “Promised Land” known as the Jewish state called Israel. To this day, Israel is a very strong ally to the United States and Britain. It is a Middle Eastern democratic state that has similar governmental views as the United States.

So today, the question is…

Why did US liberate IRAQ???!!! What could possibly justify this action???!!!

The reason: To liberate Intolerance.

Here is why…

1. First IRAQ did not cooperate with the International community (United Nations) and allow nuclear inspectors into their country without duress. IRAQ has been known to engage in ethnic cleansing practices similar to Germany but on a much smaller scale (5000 Kurds died. Men, women and children. Chemical massacre of the Kurds in 1988).

The United States of America (Liberty and Freedom Fighters), will not allow a country that practices ethnic cleansing, to threaten the United States or any of their allies, by possessing Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD). Unfortunately, America did not immediately act on this ethnic cleansing massacre due to the impact it might have on the international community. Therefore, Saddam was not immediately removed from power at that time. The chemical weapons used on 5000 Kurds are considered Weapons of Mass Destruction by the US.

Also, The United States CIA intelligence lead the US to believe IRAQ was close to becoming Nuclear capable. Had IRAQ allowed UN inspectors into their country a thorough investigation could have been performed to either confirm or deny this intelligence. However, UN was not permitted into IRAQ.

2. 9/11 – September 11th, 2001. United States of America was attacked by Islamic Fundamentalists and lost nearly 3000 innocent civilians, mostly firefighters and policeman. Most of these fundamentalists were from Saudi Arabia but all followed Islamic religion.

The Islamic religion, quite vast in many Middle Eastern countries, practices intolerance and believes Christians are sinners designed to misguide Islamic believers.

The Koran (Islamic bible) states, that ALL who are not Islam must die. This is a VERY primitive, non-civilized and intolerant belief. This belief is very similar to the belief Germany had towards gays and Jews in WWII. This belief is very dangerous to the non-Muslim world because it practices non-tolerance and ethnic cleansing.

3. Stability in the Middle East (Muslim/Islamic world). Although the Unites States, and other non-Islamic countries, may not see the benefits of removing Saddam from power until 20-30 years from now... Eventually, the youth of IRAQ and the Middle East will begin to adapt a more tolerant and global attitude towards non-Muslims. Once these new attitudes become more widely accepted by the Middle East and IRAQ, they will begin to join the global community and the rest of civilized world. Until then, IRAQ and many Middle Eastern countries practicing Islam religion will remain a very dangerous place for non-Muslims.

4. OIL. Yes, it is about the 20% of the world’s oil supply that comes from IRAQ. The Japanese attacked the United States in WWII at Perl Harbor because of oil. The United States did not allow Japan access to oil because of an embargo and their cooperation with non-allies during WWII. As a result, Japan attacked the United States.

Unfortunately, one of the biggest dependencies for any civilized country is oil. Civilized society use oil for more things than you can imagine and it is not just for cars and transportation. They use oil for industry, power, lubrication, chemicals, heating and other dependencies. Oil is one the greatest consumed resources by a civilized country. Because Oil availability affects local and global economies, the United States will not tolerate a country that practices ethnic cleansing to control 20% of the world’s oil supply.

Today, the United States, Britain, Russia and many other civilized worlds are experiencing a new kind of war. This new war is referred to as Terrorism.

Terrorism is one step below an organized military invasion or war plan. Terrorists walk among us and strike at high profile and vulnerable targets. Terrorism is simply designed to sabotage or an attempt to destroy its intended target in the form of fear. Terrorism is quite affective against civilized countries because it defies the very make-up, logic or belief of the civilized country and its people.

Terrorism is an organized group of individuals who have no tolerance to any religious or economical belief other than their own. Terrorist share they same ideology as that of Germany in WWII and IRAQ in 1988.

Unfortunately, terrorism is too dangerous to ignore and is not fought conventionally. Civilized citizens should not give up or walk away because terrorist have been successful. The only true way terrorism can be defeated is by educating or influencing the minds and attitude of youth through the teachings of tolerance and respect for human life as done in the United States and Britain.

This can only be accomplished with bold, sometimes unpopular steps such as liberating countries to expedite reform.

Eventually, the dominate party will influence or win the war on terrorism. Until the majority of people in this world are tolerate and accepting of other religions and ethnic groups, terrorism (new ethnic/religious war) will continue to rein.