Feminism, Wimpy Men, and the State

LRC | Brad Edmonds

[Cathryn Crawford]

Like a frog in a pot of water.

[Cathryn Crawford]

That's not at all what I'm assuming. I know that some families have to work to make it. Both parents.

To give moms maternity leave and deny the same right to fathers is sexist.

[Tax-chick]

is sexist

I assume you're using this as a pejorative, but don't we all agree that men and women are different?

[Cathryn Crawford]

Yes, we agree.

Let me rephrase this. To not give fathers paternity leave while providing mothers with maternity leave is discriminatory based on the father's gender. It assumes because he is a man he is less important to the child's early life. Correct?

[Lorianne]

It's been demonstrated that the presence of a woman among fighting men, no matter how strong she is, is detrimental to the effectiveness of the unit.

They said the same thing about mixing racses in military units and that was overcome. I'm not saying women should be wholesale in combat units or even at all, but just that this is a suspect argument against it.

[Lorianne]

This is a result of a representative democracy. Voters have power.

[Scenic Sounds]

It assumes because he is a man he is less important to the child's early life. Correct?

Good post, Cathryn.

My initial inclination was to think that that distinction (discrimination) might be reasonable.

But, damn, I really don't want to answer your question affirmatively.

I think you turned me around on this one. LOL. ;-)

[Tax-chick]

It assumes because he is a man he is less important to the child's early life. Correct?

This is common assumption, which to an extent I'd have to say is correct. Men can't breastfeed babies. Lots of women don't, but that's their loss, and their children's. Babies need a single consistent presence, and in some ways it doesn't matter who it is - mother, father, grandmother, adoptive parent - but nonetheless, mothering is a unique physical relationship that you just don't appreciate until you've done it.

Fathers are very important to small children. My husband has been out of work most of a year, since our youngest son was 5 months old. We're thrilled that he's been able to participate with the baby all these months, but the whole "maternity/paternity leave" concept misses the boat.

Maternity and paternity are the Real Life, and the job is what pays the rent. There's something deeply wrong with the idea of taking a few weeks of "vacation" to be a parent!

[Focault's Pendulum]

Like a frog in a pot of water.

I had not heard that saying before. I'm just a guy..what does that mean?

I'm also getting on in years.....be kind to a middle aged...really good looking gentleman.

Of course I haven't owned a mirror for about fifteen years..so I'm just guessing.

[Tax-chick]

The pregnancy rate among women in the military would indicate that the sexes are not interacting on a strictly professional level. "But we told them not to have sex on the ship ... where'd all these babies come from?"

[Cathryn Crawford]

Wow. Did I really? Cool!

I was hoping you would understand. How would you like to be told that because you are a man (evil!) you aren't as important to your kids? Wouldn't that piss you off, just a bit? Maybe a little? ;-)

[Scenic Sounds]

Maternity and paternity are the Real Life, and the job is what pays the rent. There's something deeply wrong with the idea of taking a few weeks of "vacation" to be a parent!

I'm not sure I understand that part. Could you flesh that out for me?

[Lorianne]

We have rules, they should be obeyed. If they are not kick out both people who violate the rules. It takes TWO to tango. Pregnancy is not the issue, only the evidence.

[HairOfTheDog]

You're right...it's "some". But "some people" seem to take what "some" women do and use it as an opportunity for a wholesale misogynistic pity-party.

Hear! hear!.... That is what makes me cringe when I see articles like this.

[Scenic Sounds]

I was hoping you would understand. How would you like to be told that because you are a man (evil!) you aren't as important to your kids? Wouldn't that piss you off, just a bit? Maybe a little? ;-)

A little bit?

Now I'm bordering on outrage!! ;-)

[Tax-chick]

How would you like to be told that because you are a man (evil!) you aren't as important to your kids

That's a red herring. We've all agreed that men and women are different; we're not Democrats here. What, then, is so incomprehensible about the idea that mothers and fathers are both essential to their children, but in different ways, and with emphasis on different needs and seasons in their children's lives.

It seems to me that you're trying to create a dichotomy, mother vs. father, where there is none in nature. And based, for heaven's sake, on the question of which parent should give up a few months of their FReepin' "self-actualization" to pay attention to the kiddies! It seems awfully Hillary to me, at the roots ...

[Tax-chick]

Pregnancy is not the issue, only the evidence

True - evidence, as I see it, that mixing men and women in a military situation is not the most efficient way of achieving national security, if national security, efficiently, is your end.

[najida]

"Equal rights" to be a wage-slave? And leave my kids with an illegal-immigrant sub-minimum-wage-slave? No thanks! I want "unequal rights" to be a mother, because otherwise our society is toast! You definitely want ME, and not the alternatives, raising the next generation of voters!
__________

Even more so, I want YOU raising those who will be taking care of me in the nursing home.

[Cathryn Crawford]

Good! That's the point! Men should be outraged!

[Cathryn Crawford]

That's not what I meant.

I just am of the (unpopular) opinion that fathers are just as vital to a child's well being as mothers.