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Feminism, Wimpy Men, and the State
LRC
| Brad Edmonds
Posted on 06/02/2003 5:01:08 PM PDT by Cathryn Crawford
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To: Focault's Pendulum
Like a frog in a pot of water.
21
posted on
06/02/2003 5:57:25 PM PDT
by
Cathryn Crawford
(Save your breath. You'll need it to blow up your date.)
To: Tax-chick
That's not at all what I'm assuming. I know that some families have to work to make it. Both parents.
To give moms maternity leave and deny the same right to fathers is sexist.
22
posted on
06/02/2003 5:58:45 PM PDT
by
Cathryn Crawford
(Save your breath. You'll need it to blow up your date.)
To: Cathryn Crawford
is sexistI assume you're using this as a pejorative, but don't we all agree that men and women are different?
23
posted on
06/02/2003 5:59:41 PM PDT
by
Tax-chick
(Visualize whirled peas ... no, kids, that's not another tornado!)
To: Tax-chick; Scenic Sounds
Yes, we agree.
Let me rephrase this. To not give fathers paternity leave while providing mothers with maternity leave is discriminatory based on the father's gender. It assumes because he is a man he is less important to the child's early life. Correct?
24
posted on
06/02/2003 6:03:37 PM PDT
by
Cathryn Crawford
(Save your breath. You'll need it to blow up your date.)
To: Tax-chick
It's been demonstrated that the presence of a woman among fighting men, no matter how strong she is, is detrimental to the effectiveness of the unit. They said the same thing about mixing racses in military units and that was overcome. I'm not saying women should be wholesale in combat units or even at all, but just that this is a suspect argument against it.
25
posted on
06/02/2003 6:06:28 PM PDT
by
Lorianne
To: Focault's Pendulum
This is a result of a representative democracy. Voters have power.
26
posted on
06/02/2003 6:07:57 PM PDT
by
Lorianne
To: Cathryn Crawford
It assumes because he is a man he is less important to the child's early life. Correct?Good post, Cathryn.
My initial inclination was to think that that distinction (discrimination) might be reasonable.
But, damn, I really don't want to answer your question affirmatively.
I think you turned me around on this one. LOL. ;-)
27
posted on
06/02/2003 6:09:11 PM PDT
by
Scenic Sounds
( "Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.")
To: Cathryn Crawford
It assumes because he is a man he is less important to the child's early life. Correct?This is common assumption, which to an extent I'd have to say is correct. Men can't breastfeed babies. Lots of women don't, but that's their loss, and their children's. Babies need a single consistent presence, and in some ways it doesn't matter who it is - mother, father, grandmother, adoptive parent - but nonetheless, mothering is a unique physical relationship that you just don't appreciate until you've done it.
Fathers are very important to small children. My husband has been out of work most of a year, since our youngest son was 5 months old. We're thrilled that he's been able to participate with the baby all these months, but the whole "maternity/paternity leave" concept misses the boat.
Maternity and paternity are the Real Life, and the job is what pays the rent. There's something deeply wrong with the idea of taking a few weeks of "vacation" to be a parent!
28
posted on
06/02/2003 6:09:42 PM PDT
by
Tax-chick
(Visualize whirled peas ... no, kids, that's not another tornado!)
To: Cathryn Crawford
Like a frog in a pot of water.I had not heard that saying before. I'm just a guy..what does that mean?
I'm also getting on in years.....be kind to a middle aged...really good looking gentleman.
Of course I haven't owned a mirror for about fifteen years..so I'm just guessing.
To: Lorianne
The pregnancy rate among women in the military would indicate that the sexes are not interacting on a strictly professional level. "But we told them not to have sex on the ship ... where'd all these babies come from?"
30
posted on
06/02/2003 6:11:45 PM PDT
by
Tax-chick
(Visualize whirled peas ... no, kids, that's not another tornado!)
To: Scenic Sounds
Wow. Did I really? Cool!
I was hoping you would understand. How would you like to be told that because you are a man (evil!) you aren't as important to your kids? Wouldn't that piss you off, just a bit? Maybe a little? ;-)
31
posted on
06/02/2003 6:12:05 PM PDT
by
Cathryn Crawford
(Save your breath. You'll need it to blow up your date.)
To: Tax-chick
Maternity and paternity are the Real Life, and the job is what pays the rent. There's something deeply wrong with the idea of taking a few weeks of "vacation" to be a parent!I'm not sure I understand that part. Could you flesh that out for me?
32
posted on
06/02/2003 6:13:09 PM PDT
by
Scenic Sounds
( "Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.")
To: Tax-chick
We have rules, they should be obeyed. If they are not kick out both people who violate the rules. It takes TWO to tango. Pregnancy is not the issue, only the evidence.
33
posted on
06/02/2003 6:13:55 PM PDT
by
Lorianne
To: wimpycat
You're right...it's "some". But "some people" seem to take what "some" women do and use it as an opportunity for a wholesale misogynistic pity-party. Hear! hear!.... That is what makes me cringe when I see articles like this.
To: Cathryn Crawford
I was hoping you would understand. How would you like to be told that because you are a man (evil!) you aren't as important to your kids? Wouldn't that piss you off, just a bit? Maybe a little? ;-)A little bit?
Now I'm bordering on outrage!! ;-)
35
posted on
06/02/2003 6:14:49 PM PDT
by
Scenic Sounds
( "Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.")
To: Cathryn Crawford
How would you like to be told that because you are a man (evil!) you aren't as important to your kidsThat's a red herring. We've all agreed that men and women are different; we're not Democrats here. What, then, is so incomprehensible about the idea that mothers and fathers are both essential to their children, but in different ways, and with emphasis on different needs and seasons in their children's lives.
It seems to me that you're trying to create a dichotomy, mother vs. father, where there is none in nature. And based, for heaven's sake, on the question of which parent should give up a few months of their FReepin' "self-actualization" to pay attention to the kiddies! It seems awfully Hillary to me, at the roots ...
36
posted on
06/02/2003 6:16:30 PM PDT
by
Tax-chick
(Visualize whirled peas ... no, kids, that's not another tornado!)
To: Lorianne
Pregnancy is not the issue, only the evidenceTrue - evidence, as I see it, that mixing men and women in a military situation is not the most efficient way of achieving national security, if national security, efficiently, is your end.
37
posted on
06/02/2003 6:17:58 PM PDT
by
Tax-chick
(Visualize whirled peas ... no, kids, that's not another tornado!)
To: Tax-chick
"Equal rights" to be a wage-slave? And leave my kids with an illegal-immigrant sub-minimum-wage-slave? No thanks! I want "unequal rights" to be a mother, because otherwise our society is toast! You definitely want ME, and not the alternatives, raising the next generation of voters!
__________
Even more so, I want YOU raising those who will be taking care of me in the nursing home.
38
posted on
06/02/2003 6:18:19 PM PDT
by
najida
(A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.)
To: Scenic Sounds
Good! That's the point! Men should be outraged!
39
posted on
06/02/2003 6:20:23 PM PDT
by
Cathryn Crawford
(Save your breath. You'll need it to blow up your date.)
To: Tax-chick
That's not what I meant.
I just am of the (unpopular) opinion that fathers are just as vital to a child's well being as mothers.
40
posted on
06/02/2003 6:21:59 PM PDT
by
Cathryn Crawford
(Save your breath. You'll need it to blow up your date.)
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