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1 posted on 06/02/2003 1:46:54 PM PDT by Heartlander
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To: Heartlander
He is, after all, a scientific materialist in good standing. Yet, throughout the book, in order to make his arguments understandable, he resorts explicitly to the imagery of the guiding hand. He even gives it a name: the "Genome Organizing Device," or "G.O.D."

This is a familiar pattern; Nature with a capital N, Chance with a capital C etc.

2 posted on 06/02/2003 1:51:25 PM PDT by Dataman
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To: Heartlander
Indeed, he claims unequivocally, "There is no 'me' inside my brain, there is only an ever-changing set of brain states, a distillation of history, emotion, instinct, experience, and the influence of other people -- not to mention chance."
Let me swat the good doctor on the knees with a hammer a few times. Perhaps his impression of himself as an ever changing set of brain states will assume a more coherent, more continuous character. Perhaps he will even discover evidence of a "me" inside of him--as in, STOP HURTING ME!
5 posted on 06/02/2003 1:57:38 PM PDT by Asclepius (as above, so below)
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To: Heartlander
Man's nature is easily determined by listening to God's voice - scripture
At the fall, man threw in his lot with the rebels-...satan and his crew

Man's nature..was determined by sin-rebellion...

God became man in order to take on this "sin nature" yet as God could not -would not- did not sin..and made himself the perfect substitute for man...

It is only through Christ that man can be saved from man's (fleshly-sinful-satanic) nature..

Three forces - God, the flesh, and the devil....these shape mankind...via what ever media...one wants to rationalize, envision, or theorize as the mediator over man's behavior.

6 posted on 06/02/2003 2:02:45 PM PDT by joesnuffy (Moderate Islam Is For Dilettantes)
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To: Heartlander
read later
7 posted on 06/02/2003 2:05:08 PM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: Heartlander
Blinded ... dumbfounded --- by evolution (( ideology // tautology )) !

Quackery <== evolution // ideology (( manmade )) - knowledge (( philosophy )) - technology // SCIENCE ==> creation !

Splifford the bat says: Always remember:

A mind is a terrible thing to waste; especially on an evolutionist.

Just ... say no to narcotic drugs, alcohol abuse --- and corrupt ideological doctrines.

11 posted on 06/02/2003 2:14:04 PM PDT by f.Christian (( apocalypsis, from Gr. apokalypsis, from apokalyptein to uncover, from apo- + kalyptein to cover))
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To: Heartlander
I think that the human gene will stop replicating as soon as all the allowable permutations of the 30,000 genes are realized. We are approaching mankind's Final Generation. Evereything has a finite existence; all things come to an end. Man is no exception.
14 posted on 06/02/2003 2:36:50 PM PDT by Consort
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To: Heartlander; Dataman; Alamo-Girl; unspun; Phaedrus; js1138; lockeliberty; Consort; ...
Ridley's deeper point is subversive of human freedom and individual accountability. He denies the existence of free will: Our actions are not causes but effects, "prespecified by, and run by, genes." Indeed, he claims unequivocally, "There is no 'me' inside my brain, there is only an ever-changing set of brain states, a distillation of history, emotion, instinct, experience, and the influence of other people -- not to mention chance."

I just read this review last night in NR; I'm so glad you posted it here, Heartlander. Thank you!

Chance -- all is "chance." Samuel Butler -- who G. B. Shaw regarded as the greatest English writer of the second half of the 19th century, was a very early critic of Charles Darwin's -- but not of Darwin's father, Erasmus Darwin's -- evolutionary theory. There were other notable theories as well; e.g., Lamarck's. Evolution had been one of those "big ideas" hanging in the air during the 18th and 19th centuries; but Charles Darwin's take on it was, to Butler, beyond the pale for he considered it hopelessly irrational -- because it relies entirely on Luck; i.e., random chance. Regarding Butler's criticism of Darwinian evolution, Jacques Barzun (in From Dawn to Decadence, 2000) writes:

"...it 'banishes mind from the universe,' while experience shows mind acting for results that it foresees. Mind is seconded by habit, which starts conscious and becomes unconscious. This composite cunning was the agency that Erasmus Darwin had proposed in his work on evolution, and Butler espouses it.... Butler also pointed out that to account for the origin of new species one must account for the origin of variation from the old, which nobody so far knew or has said anything about." [Emphasis added]

To my knowledge, nobody has yet done this. Instead, evolutionists want to talk about incredible abstractions, such as Richard Dawkin's "selfish gene" as the driver of "natural selection."

Darwin wants to avoid engaging in teleology -- that is, he maintains that there is no purpose or goal in view as the terminus of the evolutionary process. But then he goes and contradicts himself by saying that evolution serves the "survival of the fittest" -- which implies a goal or purpose.

If this is true, then what does material nature or selfish genes (which seem to lack conciousness, or at least the higher consciousness of moral -- willing, choosing -- thinking agents) have to do with working toward a goal of "fitness" or any other kind of goal? How did material nature or the gene get sufficient "mind" and "will" to work toward that "fitness" of species that is the supposed purpose of the evolutionary process? "Random" and "fit" are quite antithetical ideas. So how can the achievement of "fitness" be squared with a random process, which supposedly produces it? More dumb Luck?

It doesn't wash: For in Darwin's theory, "Luck" explicitly stands in the place of "Mind" -- its explanation banishes mind, so nature or selfish genes cannot be said to "have" mind, or purpose -- for purpose presupposes mind.... And yet we have nature ineluctibly moving toward "fitness."

I'm still waiting for Darwinists to explain this paradox to me.

16 posted on 06/03/2003 9:47:12 AM PDT by betty boop (When people accept futility and the absurd as normal, the culture is decadent. -- Jacques Barzun)
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To: Aric2000; balrog666; BMCDA; Condorman; *crevo_list; donh; general_re; Godel; Gumlegs; Ichneumon; ...
Ping
90 posted on 06/04/2003 2:26:07 PM PDT by Junior (Computers make very fast, very accurate mistakes.)
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To: Heartlander
Blinded by truth. Oh my! Such a travesty.
109 posted on 06/04/2003 8:04:29 PM PDT by Jeff Gordon
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To: Heartlander
Did someone notify the moderators that another crevo thread has been started? They must just cringe. I'd hate to be refereeing these.
206 posted on 06/05/2003 11:57:35 AM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: Heartlander; Alamo-Girl; Dataman; betty boop; Phaedrus
BTW, you may be interested in this link:
http://www.serve.com/herrmann/pp5.htm
225 posted on 06/05/2003 5:31:18 PM PDT by unspun ("Do everything in love.")
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To: Heartlander
Ridley says that the mapping of the genome "has indeed changed everything, not by closing the argument or winning the [nature versus nurture] battle for one side or the other, but by enriching it from both ends till they meet in the middle."

As a scientist, Ridley has been shown to be way behind the curve. In 1999, when already there were plenty of indications that it was not genes who controlled an organism, but the DNA which materialists call junk, he wrote the book Genome which claims that genes determine everything we do.

This book just shows, that ideologues do not change their views when proven wrong, they just make up new, more convoluted stories.

251 posted on 06/06/2003 4:23:15 AM PDT by gore3000
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To: Heartlander
The philosophy of Darwinism posits that this evolutionary process is aimless, unintentional, purposeless, and without rhyme or reason. This means it has no biological goal: It just is.

No. Darwinism posits that any random changes that happen to enhance survival are passed down to the next generations, and any random changes the don't enhance survival lead to the death of the indivdual, minimizing the number of chances it has to be passed into descendants.

Selection isn't random, and anyone writing a review that doesn't recognize this shouldn't be writing the review.

278 posted on 06/06/2003 1:17:54 PM PDT by Ten Megaton Solution
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To: Heartlander
Near the end of the Middle Ages, a few theologians (the "scientists" of that time) persuaded a king of France to give them permission for an experiment that had been forbidden by the Church. They were allowed to weigh the soul of a criminal by measuring him both before and after his hanging. As usually happens with academics, they came up with a definite result: the soul weighed about an ounce and a half. We laugh at such things of course...We ought at least consider the possibility that a few centuries hence people may laugh at the pretensions of some of our scientists, as well as at our gullibility at the end of the twentieth century and the beginning of the twenty-first.

...

My argument is not simply that is it is not given to human beings to explain or know everything, including the universe. When human beings recognize that they cannot create everything and cannot see everything and cannot define everything, such limitations do not impoverish but enrich the human mind...p 113

At the End of an Age, John Lukacs

344 posted on 06/07/2003 9:11:39 PM PDT by beckett
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
oxytocin alert
378 posted on 06/08/2003 8:28:10 AM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: Heartlander; unspun; yall

More bump images HERE !

518 posted on 06/09/2003 6:19:35 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP (Bu-bye Dixie Chimps! / Check out my Freeper site !: http://home.attbi.com/~freeper/wsb/index.html)
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To: Heartlander
If this is true, then my perception of Nature via Nurture as so much nonsense was the only reaction I could have had, given my original genetic programming, as later modified by my every experience and emotion from my conception, through the womb, childhood, high school, college, practicing law, the death of my father, indeed up to and including the reading of this book. If that is so – if I was forced by my gene expression of the moment to perceive this book as I have -- what have we really learned that can be of any benefit to humankind? We are all slaves to chemistry and there is no escape.

Bingo! Materialists always exempt their thoughts and ideas from the rules of materialism - as if the mateialist somwhow rises above his genetic material annd is able to have some sort of supernatural insight. It's laughable.

529 posted on 06/09/2003 8:58:55 AM PDT by exmarine
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To: Heartlander
Waits patiently for the Zapruder film showing my cousins slither out of a pool of primordial ooze...........
555 posted on 06/09/2003 12:44:47 PM PDT by RomanCatholicProlifer
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To: Heartlander
Amazing! A crevo thread that hasn't been pulled.
595 posted on 06/09/2003 7:14:45 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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