Europe Returning to Pagan Roots

NewsMax ^ | May 30, 2003 | Fr. Mike Reilly

[Hugenot]

NewsMax.com's religion editor, Fr. Mike Reilly, sees a disturbing trend in the latest news from the European Union.

Zenit News is reporting on the new Constitution for the European Union and the news is not good.

"Drawing inspiration from the cultural, religious and humanist inheritance of Europe, which, nourished first by the civilizations of Greece and Rome, characterized by spiritual impulse always present in its heritage and later by the philosophical currents of the Enlightenment, has embedded within the life of society its perception of the central role of the human person and his inviolable and inalienable rights, and of respect for law. ..."

Do you get the sense that there's something missing from the preamble? What "spiritual impulse" are they referring to? Could it be the Irish druids, who worshipped trees? Or perhaps the Norse gods like Thor and Loki? Maybe they mean ancient German legends about Siegfried coming from Valhalla.

Are these the "spiritual impulses" that united Europe, or rather was it something called Christendom?

"It borders on the ridiculous that the Preamble should make nominal reference to the Hellenistic and Roman component and jump directly to the 'philosophers of the Enlightenment,' omitting the Christian reference without which the Enlightenment is incomprehensible," Josep Miro i Ardevol, president of the Convention of Christians for Europe, said in a statement.

In an interview on Vatican Radio, Cardinal Roberto Tucci, a member of the executive council of the radio, said that "It was not a question of adherence [to Christianity], but of recognizing the historical fact of the enormous influence that Christian culture has had on European culture."

"The most unifying factor of Europe, which has been Christian culture, is missing" in the Preamble, he said.

The draft continues, "Conscious that Europe is a continent that has brought forth civilization; that its inhabitants, arriving in successive waves since the first ages of mankind, have gradually developed the values underlying humanism: equality of persons, freedom, respect for reason. ..."

Where do they think these values come from? What other civilizations espouse these values? The fact is that it was Christian culture which civilized and united tribal barbarians into what was left of the declining Roman Empire, which would eventually become modern Europe. That is why every modern tyrant has seen the need to attack and suppress Christianity.

This does not bode well for Europeans who treasure freedom. If our rights come from men, then men can take them away. Our founding fathers were wise enough to acknowledge that "man was endowed by his Creator with certain inalienable rights. ..."

Sadly, the leaders of Europe lack that insight.

[Tribune7]

Only tangently related but I've heard it argued that modern Europe would have advanced much faster if the time and money spent on cathedral building was used for roads and education.

It should be noted that the money spent on church building did not come from school or highway funds (they really didn't exist) but from military spending. And most of that military spending -- given the Germanic/Roman legacy -- was not for defense but for offense.

We're better off with the churches.

[Antoninus]

You misqoute me and you contradict yourself.

Please point out where I misquote you.

I said The Eastern Christians actually had a seperation of church and state but they never called it that. I think the term the Orthodox use is a "symphonic relationship".

They may have had in theory, but in practice, such separation did not exist, no matter what they called it.

The Emperor was not head of church and state.

Effectively, he was.

If the Pope never claimed temporal authority why did he crown Charles the Great? Why did give England to William the Bastard? Why did the Pope give Ireland to the Norman English.

I don't think you understand the difference between temporal and spiritual power; power in theory and power in reality. Most of the temporal acts of Popes you site above were mere confirmation of fait accomplis. What was Stalin's line? "How many divisions does the Pope have?" The Pope's power was limited utterly by exactly how "Christian" a king he was dealing with.

Of course, all the thrones of all those kings (and Stalin's dictatorship too) are long gone, yet the Pope still remains as one of the most important men on the planet. Says something, don't you think?

As chronicled here: THE FALL OF ORTHODOX ENGLAND

I don't read much fiction...

[Antoninus]

I find it interesting that you quote only from sources that would seek to emphasize the number of martyrs for their own benefit, rather than neutral sources like the OCD (which is a secondary source, like the Catholic Encyclopedia).

I find it interesting that you only quote from secular sources like the OCD, which you mistakenly assume are "neutral". Ask around. The Catholic Encyclopedia is in every way the equal of any "neutral" source when it comes to scholarly authority.

If you have any evidence contradicting what was written in the articles I pointed you to from the Catholic Encyclopedia, then present it.

[ffusco]

Not the high point of their civilization, but not the genocide that some would believe.

And the early Christians weren't saints either- Many burned temples, upset graves, vandalized public works, disrupted government functions, incited violence, failed to pay taxes, Were unpatriotic and opennly hostile to Roman Laws. Today we call them martyrs.

They were the anti-war protesters, ACLU, Greenpeace and PETA of their day.

[cpprfld]

Bump for later

[ffusco]

Easy pal- I'm Catholic!

Christianity is a wonderful thing but as far as science, medicine and technology goes, a bunch of Gothic Churches simply doesn't compare- And that's the way they wanted it. Christianity is about working toward a serene afterlife and being a good neighbor.

The Greeks invented the modern mind- everthing after that - even how we "Know" God is thanks to them. Otherwise we would live in a world of random events without connection.

[ffusco]

LOL

[Destro]

You confuse yourself and you play with words. The Crusades were not called for by the Orthodox Patriarch but it was the Pope who called men to arms at a request from the Emperor in Constantinople. That the Pope sometimes was called on his temporal authority does not negate the fact that the Bishop of Rome THOUGHT he had it.

You misqouted me when you claimed I wrote that their was a seperation of church, ignoring the rest of my point. You took my statement out of context.

Seperation in orthodoxy did exist in that the Emperor was not a religous figure like he was in Islam and like the Pope was in the Papal states.

[RobbyS]

The schools were indeed very Protestant, and one reason for the lessening demand for Catholic schoools after the 1960s was the elimination of overtly Protestant influences in the public schools. But the many reason for the loss of members was the natural attraction to the opportunities of apostasy. Anti-Catholicism is deeply imbedded in Anglo-American culture.The Church has long been aplit between those who favored and those who opposed assimilation to the values of the American elites. These elites have tended to become more agnostic, but this has not made the work of the assimilationists easier since anti-Catholicism is just as strong among liberals as it ever was among Protestants.

[RobbyS]

Christian mobs are every bit as nasty as any others, but all revolutionaries tend to be intolerant. This explains the widespread iconaclasm among early Protestants and by the French Jacobins. The English reformation and the French Revolution were each characterized by widespread destruction of monasteries and other church properties and the redistribution of church wealth among certain favored persons.

[Tribune7]

The Greeks invented the modern mind- everthing after that - even how we "Know" God is thanks to them.

I wouldn't shortchange the Greeks but don't underestimate the Christian -- especially Catholic -- influence on western science.

Copernicus was a church leader and Gallileo -- despite the press -- died in good spiritual standing with the church.

The debate as to who started modern science usually ends up being between Roger Bacon, a monk, or Sir Francis Bacon, a Protestant.

I've argued that without the Biblical condemnation of idolotry and its exhortation to honor truth, the scientific method would never have occurred.

[Kerberos]

"Anti-Catholicism is deeply imbedded in Anglo-American culture"

I understand that as I remember when Kennedy was elected and there was quite an uproar over a Catholic being in the White house. However, I was only six at the time and couldn't understand why Kennedy being a Catholic made any difference one-way or the other.

[ffusco]

I love Bacon! Science would not be possile without an understanding of cause and effect- Aristotle's causality?

Of course many, many Christains were scientists, and It was a duty to God to discover his laws. The idea that God had created an ordered world and that the Natural laws could be dicovered by experimentation which were repeatable and predictable. The idea that God didn't interfere with his divine creation was neccessary for men of science to do their work, but it was antithetical to The Church- that's why Galileo needed to recant!

The competing desires to discover natural law without contradicting canon can be seen as a desire to keep order in a chaotic world.

[RobbyS]

It had been an unwritten rule that no Catholic should be President. Kennedy tried to get around this by saying at Houston, in effect, that he was not really a Catholic. He got the great majority of the Catholic vote anyway and that outweighed the anti-Catholic vote.

[RobbyS]

"Canon"? Do you mean the Bible. No, Galiileo's mistake was going against an establishment trained in Aristotle. They hadn't a clue what he was getting at. It didn't help that he was a smart-ass who offended the vanity of a pope.

[Tribune7]

Science would not be possile without an understanding of cause and effect- Aristotle's causality?

Won't argue that. But Aristotle didn't discover science -- well the scientific method, anyway. :-)

[ffusco]

By canon I mean the official party line of the Church- that The Earth is the center of the solar system. Your right, Galileo comes across as a smart-ass!

...............though they do move. (wasn't that the caviat of his re-cant?)

[ffusco]

I have really enjoyed this thread!

Thanks ; )

[Kerberos]

"He got the great majority of the Catholic vote anyway and that outweighed the anti-Catholic vote."

Yea but what was the big deal about him being a Catholic? I never did get that outside of something I come across years ago that alluded to the perception that since he was Catholic, his allegiance might be to Rome.

[RobbyS]

Part of it was that Catholics were engaged in a war to the deathe death with the Protestants (Remember that the Galileo thing took place during the 30-years war.) The Church didn't want to be thought less respectful of the Bible than the Protestants. The irony is that until the Reformation the Church never felt herself confined to a literal interpretation of the Bible. But, as the saying goes, in wartimes one tends to become more like one's enemy.