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Government targets 'Jesus' sign
World Net Daily ^ | May 25, 2003 | World Net Daily

Posted on 05/25/2003 4:39:11 AM PDT by milan

A borough government in Pennsylvania says freedom of speech does not extend to a man's large "Jesus is Lord" sign, threatening the man with jail time if he doesn't remove it, reports the Johnstown Tribune-Democrat.


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Extended News; US: Pennsylvania
KEYWORDS: freedomofspeech; signs
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To: Dave S
so are you supporting the laws or are just bashing christianity?
41 posted on 05/25/2003 5:59:55 AM PDT by gdc61 (Crow, the main coarse at every liberal luncheon)
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To: ricpic; StopGlobalWhining
It's a bit of a stretch to say that this is some kind of government repression of freedom of speech. The guys shop is in an historic district.

This is another example of how local ordinances are being used to incrementalyy take away our freedoms. Professioncal planners do tend to be anti-religious (although not merely anti christian) and are working around the country to add ordinances to communities to "preserve their character" and make them "a place people would want to go". They keep trying to engineer the 'perfect' community, and no sign of religion seems to be part of that vision.

While the professionals are pretty careful to not say anything anti-religious where others will hear them, their attitude spreads to the citizens Planning Commisions. Locally, we had a Lutheran church in town that bought the properties next to them, and wanted to expand their parking to accomodate growth. One of the Planning Commisioners apparently forgot he was in a public meeting, and said he didn't think it should be approved because the church was a cancer on the community. This same planning commision denied the Mormons the opportunity to take several rental houses next to a student apartment complex (with 1500 apartments) and replace them with a community center. They usually are glad to replace rental houses with another use, but apparently this particular use, with it's religious tone wasn't desireable to them. At the time we thought it was because they were mormons, but with the lutheran thing, its broader anti-religious theme showed through.

What's my point? All these ordinances being pushed on us by the American Planning Association - Historic Preservation, Open Space Preservation, Sign Ordinances, Village zoning, Overlay zoning, all have the primary intent of taking choices away from us, and putting them in the hands of people who use them to build their utopian community. Once the ordinances are in place, they are being used everywhere to infringe on our right to practice religion freely, our right to own (and control) property, our right to freely assemble, and our right to be free of unreasonable search and siezure (many of these ordinance require that you permit the enforcement officer in to inspect at any time).

We built the greatest country on earth without any of this, without 5-year plans in our communities, without citizens advisory panels for our neighborhoods, and without local inspectors with police powers. All these things that they say will improve our neighborhoods, raise our property values and bring the right kind of people into our communities are nothing more than Trojan Horses for taking away our rights and giving them to government.

This latest example in Bedford is just one more incident in a pattern going on around the country. It's less sympathetic, because the sign is pretty gaudy and annoying, but the same principles are being used to restrict our rights in one community after another, orchestrated by the socialist American Planning Association.

42 posted on 05/25/2003 6:01:02 AM PDT by Kay Ludlow
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To: Dave S
I didn't write the story. Don't get upset with me.

The ACLU guy they spoke with said nothing about driving hazard...which I am not even familiar with the area, but hear it points out over a river. On the other side of the river is a highway. How would that be a driving hazard? Apparently it doesn't face the road on the other side of the building either.

But I perhaps you dont care about someone dying if there is a chance that this one sign is going to bring someone to the Lord or even worse that it interferes with your expression of religion.

Sounds like you may have some issues with Christ yourself.

43 posted on 05/25/2003 6:04:27 AM PDT by milan
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To: Conservative Me
Way to go Bob Foor. Seems to me that if the building was still a repair shop there would have been no problem with a large sign that flashed the name of the shop.

So what is the problem?

The new name of the shop is "Jesus is Lord".

44 posted on 05/25/2003 6:05:25 AM PDT by Dustbunny
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To: Kay Ludlow
"...all have the primary intent of taking choices away from us, and putting them in the hands of people who use them to build their utopian community."

Or they could be there to protect historic buildings and prevent the downtown from becoming an eyesore.

45 posted on 05/25/2003 6:05:25 AM PDT by Conservative Me (Conservative Atheist Livin' Free)
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To: gdc61
so are you supporting the laws or are just bashing christianity?

He can't be bashing Christianity...that doesn't exist. There is no conspiracy, there is no hatred of all things Christian. < / sarcasm>

46 posted on 05/25/2003 6:05:53 AM PDT by milan
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To: Reeses
;The American Civil Liberties Union is siding with the
;borough. "Freedom of speech has time, place and manner
;restrictions,"

Boy doesn't that line just frost your shorts.......

When I came to Chicago for the first time in OHare I saw this sign. It was out front of the ticket counters off to the far side in one of the terminals :

"This has been determined by the City of Chicago to be an appropriate place to pracitce first amendment rights" Or words to that effect.

Can some PLEASE explain to me why it is that enumerated rights, ie. those specifically mentioned, can be restricted to when where and how they are practiced but un-enumerated rights ( those discovered later by judges holding the constitution up to the light and declaring that they found this new right in there honest ) are never restrictable ?

I must stop ranting......
47 posted on 05/25/2003 6:08:52 AM PDT by festus
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To: milan
yes, in the name of love and diversity.....;>
48 posted on 05/25/2003 6:09:15 AM PDT by gdc61 (poor fishies)
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To: milan
Oh the paranoia...

Better watch out Satan, aka non-Christians, are all out to get you.

BTW, I didn't agree with his statement either. I don't understand purpose of the sign on his building, but that is just me. You have those who act purposely obnoxious, like this guy in Bedford, and expect everyone to rally behind him.
49 posted on 05/25/2003 6:09:51 AM PDT by Conservative Me (Conservative Atheist Livin' Free)
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To: milan
Romans 13:1 says: "Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God."

I Cor 13:1: "If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

The guy is breaking the law, regardless of the content of the sign, and he should stop.

Also, it's a poor witness, a "noisy gong" and makes Christians look heartless to unbelievers.

The Christians should be the ones after this guy to stop it. IMHO, his efforts are not Biblical, and he should stop.
50 posted on 05/25/2003 6:11:04 AM PDT by Eccl 10:2
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To: milan
The man's sentiment is admirable, but I don't think it's something Jesus would've done.

Our Lord didn't run around breaking city ordinances by posting His Name where every passing Roman army could see it.

He spoke His Name by personal example.

51 posted on 05/25/2003 6:12:40 AM PDT by maxwell (Well I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation...)
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To: Eccl 10:2
GMTA.
52 posted on 05/25/2003 6:13:00 AM PDT by maxwell (Well I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation...)
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To: Conservative Me
purpose? arrogant of you to think he would owe you an explanation. put down my belief in god , then raise yourself to position of "purpose" my, my, maybe you are satan hehehee
53 posted on 05/25/2003 6:15:10 AM PDT by gdc61 (poor fishies)
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To: gdc61
by the way, i think he should have taken the borough to court and sued to put up the sign (he would have won in Bedford) because he IS breaking the laws as they are written.
54 posted on 05/25/2003 6:19:04 AM PDT by gdc61 (poor fishies)
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To: maxwell
Our Lord didn't run around breaking city ordinances by posting His Name where every passing Roman army could see it.

No? So, whipping money changers in the city church wasn't against city ordinances?

55 posted on 05/25/2003 6:19:37 AM PDT by milan
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To: milan
Read what I actually wrote.
56 posted on 05/25/2003 6:20:58 AM PDT by maxwell (Well I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation...)
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To: gdc61
What are you talking about? I'm not putting down anyone's Christianity, or any other faith for that matter.

I wasn't asking for an explanation, only giving my interpretation of what this guy is doing...which is HUGELY obnoxious, and does nothing for the Christian cause.

Why, do you think, this guy needs a huge flashing sign saying "Jesus is Lord"? I could try to explain it a number of ways, none of which you would like. It seems like an over compensation of his faith.
57 posted on 05/25/2003 6:23:46 AM PDT by Conservative Me (Conservative Atheist Livin' Free)
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To: Conservative Me
Or they could be there to protect historic buildings and prevent the downtown from becoming an eyesore.

There's no question there are people involved in getting historic preservation ordinances through who believe they are doing something to preserve their community. Visions of being the next Williamsburg dance in their heads. Unfortunately, it's a simple fact that every community cannot support itself on historic tourism. If there is no economic growth, or serious employers, no amount of ordinances are going to stop the decline of a town - it's part of the economic cycle. Towns can be preserved better by encouraging growth, allowing creative new uses of existing space, and by letting the invisible hand of the market show us what will make us prosperous.

In Europe, buildings that are 500-1000 years old made it to the 20th century without historic preservation ordinances. They were owned by people who chose to preserve them. That is the principal that should be used for preservation - people and groups that want to preserve building should raise the money to do so. The fact that they are unable to do so on any large scale says that it isn't as popular as they suggest. In order to implement their goals they end up relying on the power of government to do it for them, against the apparent wishes of people who've chosen not to spend their money that way.

Personally, the town I've seen be the most aggressive in this didn't exist at all in 1865. There aren't any truly historic buildings - they feel the need to preserve hundreds of Sears Homes. They say they're trying to maintain a family community in a college town, when in fact the college was there first, and the town grew in response to providing services to the college. They are chasing a vision of something that never existing, and are eager to use the power of government to build their perfect community.

That's where the power ends up, not with reasonable restrictions to preserve something everyone agrees on (like the community raising money to preserve a historic theater), but as a club to keep people in line, and make sure their friends get rewarded for the "right" kind of changes. These ordinances always end up being used on a far greater scale than originally itended, because power corrupts.

58 posted on 05/25/2003 6:24:29 AM PDT by Kay Ludlow
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To: Eccl 10:2
Would you consider marching around the walls of Jericho blowing trumpets and making a hoopla a "noisy gong"?;-)

Eventhough I agree with your assessment, something bothers me about this, and I think it's the point that the hypocritical ACLU is silent.

59 posted on 05/25/2003 6:27:52 AM PDT by sirchtruth
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To: milan
freedom of speech does not extend to a man's large "Jesus is Lord" sign

It doesn't? Why? In the country formerly known as the United States of America, the burden of proof in this case would be on the government to usurp this man's First Amendment protections. As I recall from law, that is only possible under a fairly narrow set of circumstances (clear and present danger, prior restraint, that sort of thing).

60 posted on 05/25/2003 6:31:06 AM PDT by IronJack
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