Condi Rice : "It's best to ignore" Schröder, Fischer's Past a Problem. [German News Article]

"FOCUS-Online" ^ | May 24, 2003 | "FOCUS-Online"

[longjack]

The Lady with the sharp tongue

USA OVER SCHRÖDER

"It's best to ignore him"

George W. Bush's security adviser can imagine improvements in relations with Germany only without Gerhard Schröder. Condoleezza Rice regards the résumé of Joschka Fischer as not suitable for a statesman. Further ...

P O L I T I CS

The security adviser of George W. Bush can imagine improvements in relations with Germany only without Gerhard Schröder. From FOCUS-information, Condoleezza Rice recently confided to a German in a conversation: The relationship Bush-Schröder will never be what it had been and how it should be. Indeed, Rice emphasized: "We are taking pains to improve relations with Germany at all levels." She added, however: "But we are going around the Chancellor. It's best to ignore him."

Bush has reservations about Federal Minister of Foreign Affairs [Secretary of State, lj] Joschka Fischer (Greens) because of his past. Bush is of the opinion, "Fischer's résumé doesn't fit the Curriculum Vita of a statesman".

As FOCUS further learned, at a meeting with two dozen of German businessmen while on his Berlin visit last Friday, U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell complained that the German UN representation in New York had been, "the coordination center of anti-American resolutions" in the battle over the Iraq conflict. Powell criticized: "We understand what an election campaign is. This was too much, though." Friends don't do things like that to each other.

"FOCUS - Online"..HEADLINE.."Den lassen wir besser aus"

"FOCUS - Online"..Aerticle.."Den lassen wir besser aus"

24.05.03, 12:20 Uhr

Translated by longjack

[longjack]

The original link has changed with changing headlines. The link below will take you to the story, without the original header, however.

"FOCUS-online".."Den lassen wir besser aus"

longjack

[putupon]

I don´t think that it is the right of anyone except the people of Germany to decide wether the vita of Joseph Fischer is "appropriate" for a Minister or not.

Yo, German dude.

You gotta' admit, you folks haven't shown the best judgement in the past as to who to elect for Ministers, Chancellors, and whatnot.

We do not judge about the past of US presidents, either (drugs -> WBJC; alcohol -> GWB).

A pissant DUI when he was younger. Big deal.

But you see, that statement identifies ya'lls problem.

You have no sense of proportion, a ratio thing. Comprende senor? (A little espanol to add to the international flavor; lack of proper punctuation kind of illustrates a gringo accent via keyboard, don't ya' think?. BTW, the Spainards are good friends of ours you know, "good people" as the phrase used my little portion of this vast piece of geography called the United States would describe, but I digress.)

It seems by your statement that a minor misjudgement as a youth equates with firebombing cops, kicking cops in head, aiding abetting mass murdering middle easterners, home grown genocide, and so forth.

No. I don't think you folks are quite ready to be trusted to behave like civilized adults. Germany and France are obviously still to immature too be allowed unsupervised outside of their Euro playpens.

[river rat]

We are faced with a double problem regarding both Germany and France... Not only did the Government of both nations work against the coalition against terrorism -- but the personalities and "characters" of the French and German leaders came into play.

Schroder and Fischer both behaved in a manner that revealed either poor breeding and/or hostile feelings towards the coalition of the willing...and especially against America on more that one level.

The Germans and French may respond or react to the performance and behavior of their leaders as they wish...

I am gratified to see our leaders are willing to call a pig a pig...and refuse to extend those pigs any unearned respect or forgiveness. To ignore them, is clearly within the rights of our National leaders....exactly as they ignored Arafat.

In the simpliest terms.....France and Germany did more damage to their relationship with the American PEOPLE than they can imagine...

Governments and diplomats will eventually paint over the stains....but the American people will retain a much longer memory and unforgiving stance toward the French and Germans.....

Both nations failed when they were called forward to assist a "friend".....who had been attacked many times and had thousands murdered.

Things are going to get tough, ....Hold on.
President Bush will be around for nearly 6 more glorious years.

Semper Fi

[Michael81Dus]

I don´t read "tauglich" etc in the article nor do I get your point regarding that word.

I´m of the opinion, that forgiving is a necessity in our culture. When we release criminals from prison, we have forgiven them because they had to bear the consequences for their behaviour. And when people are not fined or punished for their behaviour (drugs, stone-throwing on police officers, ...) we have to forgive them when they change. Fischer has changed, he is a democrat and he became a diplomat.

And especially foreign people should not make any comments about who leads allied nations. Choosing its leaders is the noble right of every nation, and foreigners should be quiet on that. I got angry when European countries blamed the Austrian voters for electing Haiders FPÖ into government and I get angry when people here think they have to criticize the United States presidential election system (Gore more votes than Bush) - as I get angry when foreigners think they have to decide who should lead my country. This is the very first task of me and my fellow-citizen! Therefore I will never tell you who to vote for next year - as I do not expect any suggestions for our elections.

Thank you for your understanding.

And now tell me exactly what Fischer said you think is insulting or worth to blame him more than the Foreign Minister of any other allied country! Fischer knows what he says, and he chooses every word carefully - contrary to Schröder.

[Semper Paratus]

The downside of German re-unification is the election of these closet communists.

[section9]

I love this girl. She can put the boot into the yarbles when needs be done.

The entire reason that Schroeder and Fischer are not being forgiven is rather simple. Schroeder came to Bush last year and told him that while he would not be in favor of a war in Iraq, he would not campaign against it, either.

Then Schroeder ran into trouble last summer and had to solidify his base: so he went out and started banging the anti-American drum and singing from the anti-Bush songsheet. That resonated with Germans, enough of whom put him over the top so that the CDU was driven back to Bavaria.

He broke his word to Bush. We expect that kind of crap from Arafat or Kim Jong Il. Not from the Federal Chancellor of Germany.

Once he won the election, he decided to become Chirac's bitch.

Believe me, Condi is being quite charitable in this regard.

Be Seeing You,

Chris

[freedumb2003]

I read your profile and I have to say I am pleased to see you here at FR.

It is helpful for all of us to hear from someone in the trenches where anti-american hysteria has overtaken what is (I hope) the more reasonable sentiments of our friends there.

This is quite unlike the US Democratic party, where there is no counterbalance to anti-american hysteria.

[longjack]

I don´t read "tauglich" etc in the article nor do I get your point regarding that word.

In the original post I linked FOCUS to the lead-in paragraph that was on the front page. In that paragraph Condeleeza Rice said that Fischer's credentials were not 'tauglich' for a statesman.

Not Tauglich is the word used to describe a candidate for the Bundeswehr who doesn't pass their physical. It doesn't mean they aren't suitable, it means they 'Flunked'.

I found that pretty direct from Condi.

And now tell me exactly what Fischer said you think is insulting

Articles I've read about his term as president of the security council in February. His stated goal was to draw out procedures in the UN until it was too hot to fight in Iraq. I consider those sneaky, squirmy tactics. Like the hippies in the 60's. I don't think he's changed much.

Also, my opinion is that Arafat was out of the loop until Fischer paid him a visit in March. Since then all hell has broken loose in Israel again. Coincidence? Maybe.

I also don't have a "forgiving" problem, nor do I buy into guilt trips.

It's hard to understand Americans until you go to a New England Town Meeting and have to vote for people by raising your hand.

Tschüß

longjack

[longjack]

The entire reason that Schroeder and Fischer are not being forgiven is rather simple. Schroeder came to Bush last year and told him that while he would not be in favor of a war in Iraq, he would not campaign against it, either.

I just translated an article from the "Zeit" today. In it, the author claims that Bush is saying Schroeder told him to go ahead in Iraq, he wouldn't get in his way.

Schroeder disagrees, but doesn't want to release details, claiming it would destroy his 'confidentiality'.

The article was hard to translate, but it gives a very strange perspective to the Bush-Schroeder issue. The salient point is that Schroeder is reeling from the Bush meeting with Roland Koch. The barb at Fischer may be part of the same tactic.

I will probably post that article tomorrow if I can iron out the translation. I'll ping you a copy if I do.

longjack

[nkycincinnatikid]

Micheal, the people of Germany are being told, civily, that they are on the wrong track. Germany is liked and needed here in America, but it is a fact that historically when the deutsch suffer a rectal/cranial inversion, the rest of the world suffers. There are many, many in the Heimat, who need to take a deep breath, put Siegfried on his lease and listen to your friends, like Ms. Rice.

[pepsionice]

The funny thing is that Fischer has the highest approval rating (normally over 70 percent) of any German politican. He is considered the most conservitive leaning politican of the greens.

I agree with the Bush strategy. Germany is already feeling the pain of the dollar-Euro exchange rate. The German public has already forgotten the war, as most people would have predicted with their mentality. Schroder has yet to turn around the sliding economy and will likely have to call for elections by the end of this year. The remaining problem is that there is NO great conservitive poltican sitting in the wings who can easily win the election.

[Al Simmons]

For some reason, whenever I hear German spoken, or Germany mentioned, I automatically react by saying:

"YAAA MEIN FUEHRER!"

Gee, I wonder why that might be?

Maybe I have Tourette's Syndrome?

"SIEG HEIL HERR MICHAEL!!"

How does it feel to know that 90% of the world automatically thinks of Herr Hitler when Germany is mentioned?

The tragedy is, Nazi ideology aside, that (it would appear from recent events) the last manly German types died out about 1945. All that is left is the offspring of the local "Untermenschen", the pacifists, socialists, commies, etc.

Be careful. You appear to be trying to match the French in national degeneracy.

Cordially, Al (Whose father fought you SOBs in the Balkans)

[danmar]

...great job LJ, had read the German version, and honestly Condy Rice, Colin Powell et all, are quiet right by refusing to cut any deals with the former terrorist Joschka Fischer.

I wonder if Helmuth Schmitd, Willy Brand are still alive to see the pathetic state of S.P.D. and their "elected" representatives, including the coalition with F.D.P.'s Joshcka Fischer and Devil's alliance with the Gruennen, and last but not least the sorry ass Chancellor Herr Gerhard Schroeder.

I left West Germany in 1985, back then the Heimatland was still in good shape, what the hell happend to it any ways?...
...it almost look like the whole country eversince swallowed the former DDR, it slowly turned into a more or less a communist state.

Pitty,...what a shame...for the name "Made in Germany" meant premier quality and workmanship and above all "Great Pride". It is a 0815 situation IMO/

[Michael81Dus]

Thank you for calling me an "Untermenschen". LOL

Dude, it was hard to realize that some people dislike me because of my citizenship - but guess what kind of people? Yep, elderly people (70+).

Most of the others (and not 90%) think of various other things when hearing the name of my country.

Michael
(whose Grandpas fought in the West and East for the Endsieg)

[xm177e2]

Condoleezza Rice for President!

[Michael81Dus]

Surely we need an regime change. But no nation wants to be lectured on its leadership by other governments. Here in the EU, nearly all governments tried to isolate Austria because the conservative ÖVP has chosen the right-wing FPÖ as coalition partner. Guess what happened? Peoples opinon was directed not against the FPÖ but against Brussels. It is not helpful to interfere in the affairs of others...

[Michael81Dus]

Fischer is a leftist, no doubt. But I want to hear quotes from him saying words which are not diplomatic. You state that his "aim" was to delay, probably it was, but he has never said that directly. See my point? Unlike Schröder, Fischer chooses his words carefully.

His visit to Arafat is ok. It was the beginning of the new diplomatic trial to find a solution for Mid-East, so it´s only understandable to visit the Palestinian President.

[longjack]

But I want to hear quotes from him saying words which are not diplomatic.

Do you Yahoo?

"Excuse me, I am not convinced", Joschka Fischer said, his voice almost quivering a little, when he opened his speech addressing Mr. Rumsfeld and the audience.

"Washington Post"..Germany's Mr. Tough Guy..By Michael Kelly

"Telegraph"..I am not convinced, Fischer tells Rumsfeld

What goes around comes around.

See my point?

No.

Fischer chooses his words carefully.

It's what you do, not what you say. At least where I come from.

His visit to Arafat is ok.

Israelische Polizisten sichern Beweise des Selbstmordattentats in Nordjerusalem FAZ: 18. Mai 2003

I wonder if Ariel Scharon feels the same way?

"FAZ"..09. April 2003

Bundesaußenminister Joschka Fischer machte sich bei seinen israelischen Gastgebern unbeliebt. Seine Entscheidung, den von Jerusalem geächteten Palästinenserführer Jassir Arafat am Mittwoch in Ramallah zu besuchen, war der rechtsdominierten Regierung Ariel Scharon gar nicht recht.

..Anders als Israel und Amerika geht für ihn im Friedensprozess letztlich kein Weg an Arafat vorbei. Das machte er auch Israels Premier Ariel Scharon klar, der das Treffen mit Arafat als Fehler bezeichnet hatte.

longjack

[Michael81Dus]

Please define diplomacy.

[longjack]

Please define diplomacy.

You're kidding, right?

longjack