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The .375 [H and H Magnum] on Elephant
The African Hunter ^ | Maybe 2003 | Brian Marsh

Posted on 05/23/2003 5:53:05 PM PDT by 45Auto

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To: Squantos; Eaker; Shooter 2.5; Travis McGee; humblegunner; wardaddy; TEXASPROUD; RikaStrom; ...
When I was working in the bush Nigeria in 1976 I discovered some elephant tracks behind the camp one day.
Having never seen elephant tracks I summoned my radio operator, a Nigerian, to confirm that they were, indeed, elephant tracks.
He viewed the tracks with a lot of excitement because elephants in Nigeria were very rare, even in those days.

The next morning there were about fifty people from the neighboring villages at the rig to begin the hunt.
Two days later they were back and, with great ceremony, presented me with a huge elephant steak that had been smoked and dried in their usual cooking fashion.
It had hair sticking out of the meat that looked like toothpicks.
I accepted the gift for PR purposes while trying to decide how to dispose of it without them knowing.

My radio operator was one of the hunters, and he described the hunt with great detail to me.
There were two cow elephants instead of the one that I had assumed, and they had ran these elephants all day and through the night, never letting them stop to rest.
Early the next morning when the elephants were too tired to run and could barely walk, they made the kills.
This was done by one hunter then the other running up to the side of one or the other and taking one shot in the ear then backing away to reload.
Many shots later both elephants crashed to the ground.

He proudly exhibited the rifle that was used to make the kills - a single shot .22 bolt action rifle!

81 posted on 05/24/2003 8:05:23 AM PDT by TexasCowboy (COB1)
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To: giant sable
Great narrative....thanks.
82 posted on 05/24/2003 8:08:56 AM PDT by wardaddy (Your momma said I was a loser, a deadend cruiser and deep inside I knew that she was right)
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To: Vast Buffalo Wing Conspiracy
"Yep; I definitely prefer elephants to Africans."

Having spent many years in Africa, I have to agree.
In most parts of Africa they have stripped the habitat of game animals to the point that they have very little protein in their diets.
That's the reason you see so many pictures of little pot-bellied African children - they survive on a high carbohydrate diet of yams.

In most villages along the rivers there are a few avacado trees that belong to the village, and the fruit is harvested communally.
These trees are huge, and they provide the only dependable source of protein.

83 posted on 05/24/2003 8:16:28 AM PDT by TexasCowboy (COB1)
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To: WorkingClassFilth
Sorry...

I meant to say that Karamojo Bell used a .275 and the widespread use of .30 cal. rifles among 'me-too' Europeans may have much to do with Bell and his use of lighter, high velocity ammo on heavy game like the elephants. The widespread availability of military ammo from the .303 to the 7.62 mm NATO and all of the Soviet stuff is what has driven choice among poorer locals hunting for the pot or insurgents looking for profit.

The .275 Rigby used by William David Maitland to take about 800 of his circa 1100 elephants is more commonly known as a 7x57 Mauser in U.S. cartridge designations. But Bell was no fool, and when starting out, himself used a Jeffrey dounle rifle on .450/400, certainly better suited for jumbo and rhino in brush. Note too that Bell's choice of 7mm ammunition was a full-jacketed pointed solid that would provide sufficient penetration to reach the brain, not always possible with some of the larger caliber weapons whose penetrative capabilities were a result of mass and weight rather than velocity and bullet design.

For most other beasties in Africa, the .375 so beloved by John *Pondoro* Taylor as an all-around African rifle will do the job, though something a bit more certain is preferanble for buffalo, though it will do fine on lions and other less massive beasties. Aside from the *big five* the American .30-06 and .308 Winchester will do just fine, and the .300 H&H or .300 Winchester Magnum will suffice about as well as the .338 Lapua Magnum or 9x54r, with the .375, .401 Rigby and similar equipment a step up from that- but the key is expert familiarity with the rifle and the knowledge of where to oplace the bullet, as Bell did.

I don't claim any great expertise, having only taken one elephant and three Nyati buffalo, back in the 1970s. But I believe if I were to return to hunt there again, assuming identical conditions, I'd go with a .450/400 double and a .338 boltrifle, with a .308 handy for cattle and any two-legged pests. And if elephant/rhino/buffalo were the only or primary reasons for the exercise, the .450/400 double and a .460 boltrifle would be just fine. And I wouldn't even feel terribly underequipped even with a .303 Enfield, which will do most anythihng a .308 can- which is quite a lot, actually.

But I'd be very picky about my choice of ammunition, and practice would extend to hundreds of rounds fired.

-archy-/-

84 posted on 05/24/2003 8:17:47 AM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: 30-06 Springfield
I did hit a camel with it in Qatar near the inland sea south of Um Said at about 1700 meters using the swarovski glass it was issued with and special raufaus "HEI" .50 caliber we had. A Qatari we were with had gotten drunk as a skunk drinking Vat 69 and had wounded the critter with a FN he had in the back of his Range Rover.

I just wanted to put the poor thing out of it's misery after the dumbass drunk arab had wounded it. Coyotes , metal gongs and the odd sod poodle are the only targets for the 82A1 these days.

Stay Safe .....

85 posted on 05/24/2003 8:20:19 AM PDT by Squantos (Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.)
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To: kitchen
Your post alone is reason enough to bookmark this thread.

Bookmarked.

-archy-/-

86 posted on 05/24/2003 8:21:15 AM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: Tijeras_Slim
No one has mentioned Peter Capstick here either....or I have just missed it. His stories were always my favorites regarding dangerous game. Burtons books are sleepers IMHO. Great reads......

Stay Safe !

87 posted on 05/24/2003 8:26:14 AM PDT by Squantos (Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.)
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To: Squantos; Eaker; TexasCowboy; Shooter 2.5; stand watie
Tom , you refinish yer competition rifle ?

Stay Safe !

Clearly, the John C. Garand Memorial Matches are getting some competition from the Jimmy Buffet Parrothead matches....


88 posted on 05/24/2003 8:28:05 AM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: TexasCowboy
That's the reason you see so many pictures of little pot-bellied African children - they survive on a high carbohydrate diet of yams.

That and maize. But if it's used for making pomba beer, there's no mealie meal for the kids, as is often the case.

89 posted on 05/24/2003 8:31:02 AM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: PhilipFreneau; TEXASPROUD
Naww it ain't that bad....:o).......LOL !

The worst recoil I ever experienced was a Daisy built/designed AMAC .50 caliber sniper rifle that had a piss poor recoil brake (read zero effective). I actually thought that the squishy grey part of my brain had seperated from the thick skull I carried it in. I was a hurting pup. Pain defined.

The Ruger No 1 I have was originally a .458 Win Mag according to the factory rep I shared the serial number with. Someone between me and the factory had it rechambered and I added whitworth sights to it.

It is actually a very accurate rifle and the recoil is manageable. Albeit nothing one will shoot from a bench all day long unless they just want to tatto their sholder from the inside out.

Stay Safe !

90 posted on 05/24/2003 8:37:14 AM PDT by Squantos (Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.)
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To: archy
I've seen stickers and what not on Service Rifles but no one comes close to what the Prairie dog shooters do to the finish on their gunstocks. Beautiful.

Archy, that guy lied about the Richard Lee book data. I called two friends who have the book and he doesn't know what he's writing about. I'm just about through with that thread. I did get some advice about buying the book. It's supposed to be so good that reloaders are going out of their way to buy it.
91 posted on 05/24/2003 8:40:58 AM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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To: TexasCowboy
Early the next morning when the elephants were too tired to run and could barely walk, they made the kills. This was done by one hunter then the other running up to the side of one or the other and taking one shot in the ear then backing away to reload. Many shots later both elephants crashed to the ground.

He proudly exhibited the rifle that was used to make the kills - a single shot .22 bolt action rifle!

That's one way to do it with a .22. Another is up the nasal cavity. Then there's the trick with a 12-bore shotgun, inserted up the rear after lifting the tail, suppository fashion. Marksmanship is not an issue, and the damage is done by internal haemmorage from the expanding powder gasses, with the type and direction of the shot load of less importance. The primary factor in the choice of shooter for that sort of most rude slaughter aside from stealth, is that the shooter be the fastest runner possible, for obvious reasons. And the more the beast runs, the more it injures itself, with death coming after two or three days of agony.

There was a kill of a circus bull in the US in the mid-1960s using a .22 short, by a drunken rube showing off his handgun to his lady companion. Imagine his surprise upon being presented with the bill for his localized safari, following the beating he received from the animal's handlers.

92 posted on 05/24/2003 8:41:18 AM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: TexasCowboy
Awwww you didn't eat that elephant steak ? Well if ya pass thru Amarillo get that 72 oz manhole cover the Big Texan gives away. Close as ya'll get to Elephant steak here IMO.

The .22 shot is evidence of bullet placement. I have seen the same thing done on large game in Alaska and lower 48.

Elephant hair is tough I still have a bracelet made of the elephant hair that I was given while I lived in Thailand. Tough stuff.

Stay Safe !

93 posted on 05/24/2003 8:46:19 AM PDT by Squantos (Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.)
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To: Travis McGee
Nice! The pimp special!

Oh, there are a variety of those.


94 posted on 05/24/2003 8:46:39 AM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: archy
Is that a gold painted Sten with a homemade suppressor Archy?

Enlighten me?
95 posted on 05/24/2003 8:53:01 AM PDT by wardaddy (Your momma said I was a loser, a deadend cruiser and deep inside I knew that she was right)
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To: archy
I remember a story about an elephant that had killed it's handler and the townsfolk decided the elephant should be hanged.

They used a crane and I saw the pictures somewhere on the internet. The only thing I can think is that they killed the the elephant first and then hung it as a symbolic punishment.
96 posted on 05/24/2003 8:53:47 AM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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To: giant sable
I put a bullet, via shoulder shot at 40 yards, right into the heart of a large Cape Buffalo. It turned, stared at me (along with six of his friends -- a terrifying moment), then turned and ran fifty feet before tumbling. As I approached, he managed to get up on his forelegs and give me a look of such homicidal malevolence that it just about froze my blood.

Oh, yes. Alive or dying, they really do hate us. I've heard it said that nyati [the buffs] probably kills more humans in Africa than any other beast, both due to their capabilities and numbers, with a lack of human respect by the terminally stupid also being high on the list of factors. And I believe it.

-archy-/-

97 posted on 05/24/2003 8:53:51 AM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: archy
http://www.roadsideamerica.com/pet/bigmary.html
98 posted on 05/24/2003 8:57:37 AM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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To: Shooter 2.5; spatzie
I remember a story about an elephant that had killed it's handler and the townsfolk decided the elephant should be hanged.

They used a crane and I saw the pictures somewhere on the internet. The only thing I can think is that they killed the the elephant first and then hung it as a symbolic punishment.

The story's quite true, it happened in the early 1900s here in my present location of Tennessee. the circus involved was the Sells-Floto show, and the bull's name was Mary. Click on the pic of Mary hanging from the 120-ton railroad crane used to hoist her body for a link to the story with details.

Appropos of nothing in patrticular, my ex's name is also Mary. Coincidence? I think not.


99 posted on 05/24/2003 9:01:48 AM PDT by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: archy
Thnaks for you insights and those of all the others that have been and done!

I'll never have the cash to hunt these creatures, but the accounts of the old hunters never cease to fascinate. The closeset I will ever get was chasing white rhino on the back of elephants in the terai country of Nepal.

Knowing some of the early hunters started their careers with black powder is mind-boggling. Stupifying disease and pestilence. Many of them describe lots of bad ammunition where misfires occurred with horrifying frequency. Dealing with treachery and cunning on the part of tribal chieftans as well as the beasts in the bush. Stopping charges with an arm's reach of the shooter. All of this is potent, powerfull stuff. Made a convert of me as a kid and keeps me well entertained as a big kid still.

Even if all I ever do is snipe squirrel and take grouse on Autumn walks in the woods, the times, lore and vivid stories of this stuff is enough to make me grieve that there is a limit to the body of autobiographical accounts. The books that got me started years ago were Jim Corbet's accounts of hunting man-eaters in northern India. If people haven't read his stories, I envy them for the tremendous read they have to look forward to.

Again, thanks to all of you for sharing your terrific stories! Put 'em in a book...
100 posted on 05/24/2003 9:04:36 AM PDT by WorkingClassFilth (Defund NPR, PBS and the LSC.)
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