Rich, Black, Flunking (Education Study)

East Bay Express ^ | SUSAN GOLDSMITH

[PMCarey]

The whole issue of affirmative action is one of race - that blacks only get jobs because of their race - it is impossible (in this view) for an affirmative action hire to be competent.

That's too extreme. It's more correct to say that it's impossible to separate the competence of the hiree from race because AA makes race a factor in the hiring process in place of hiring based solely on merit. Thus it taints the hiree and all hirees of that race. Certainly many, if not most, AA hires are competent.

But race is at best a minor issue here although, it's become more of major issue especially on the right.

The race of Blair is the issue here because it is quite clear from the record that they were reluctant to fire Blair because of his race.

[John O]

We are in Raleigh, which is supposedly KNOWN for its above average school system.

No public school system is above average. Some are passable but any school that is infected with the NEA or other teacher's union is not a safe place for children to be.

Home school or private school. If you can't afford that talk to the teacher DAILY about what's going on in class. Be a royal PITA to them and insure that they do their job without turning your child into a liberal or a homosexual (or a homosexual liberal but that might be redundant).

[John O]

That's too extreme. It's more correct to say that it's impossible to separate the competence of the hiree from race because AA makes race a factor in the hiring process in place of hiring based solely on merit.

No. Garbonzo had it correct the first time. It is impossible to view an affirmative action hire as competent. They got the job only because of their race. This view will remain until they prove otherwise and will be reinforced or re-established if they mess up. In the minds of everyone who thinks, there is someone of a different race who was more qualified but who didn't get the job because of their race.

Note that the reality may be that the person hired was the most qualified candidate and is exceptionally competent at the position. The view will still remain that they are only a quota hire because of affirmative action.

[BADROTOFINGER]

Khalid Samad, the parent who compared Ogbu to Clarence Thomas, believes the professor fails to understand the black experience in America and how that creates problems for African-American students. "The system has de-educated and miseducated African Americans," he says. "Africans came here having some knowledge of who they were and their history and they had a self-acceptance. For several generations there has been a systematic robbing African Americans of their sociocultural identity and their personal identity. The depth of that kind of experience has created the kinds of problems we're still grappling with today."

To say this is patently absurd. African Americans of the leftist stripe have plenty of sociocultural identity and personal identity. It is driven home every day on BET and MTV, and steadfastly reinforced and validated by Revs. Jackson and Sharpton and other black 'leaders', and that is the problem. If they dont like where they are being led, then the fault is theirs for continuing the blind stupidity that continues to motivate them to follow this morons. It is Khalid Samad who has the problems with understanding. If you want the kids to do better at math, make them do math! Same with any other academic subject. This is simply common sense.

Someone said that the simplest rules are the most difficult to follow, and when you treat those rules like Kryptonite, this kind of thing is going to happen...JFK

[PMCarey]

In the minds of everyone who thinks, there is someone of a different race who was more qualified but who didn't get the job because of their race.

I agree with that, but saying that there is someone more qualified is different from saying that the person who was hired is not competent.

[supercat]

Ogbu concluded that the average black student in Shaker Heights put little effort into schoolwork and was part of a peer culture that looked down on academic success as "acting white." Although he noted that other factors also play a role, and doesn't deny that there may be antiblack sentiment in the district, he concluded that discrimination alone could not explain the gap.

In other words, black students make no effort to succeed, and people can't figure out why they fail.

[John O]

I agree with that, but saying that there is someone more qualified is different from saying that the person who was hired is not competent.

But how does the AA hire prove his competency and overcome the impression that he's just a quota hire? (or a two-fer if it's a black woman). I think you stated before that everyone is hurt in this process and I agree strongly. Every black hire is now seen as an incompetent quota hire because of Affirative Action.

[tictoc]

It all comes down to reading, reading, reading

I believe you are right.

Are African Americans capable of attaining the highest levels of intellectual achievement? That shouldn't even be a question because there are many who have done exactly that. Here is one example, Professor Jim Gates

(not to be confused with Henry Louis Gates jr., the head of Afro-American studies at Harvard.)

Jim Gates is the John S. Toll Professor in Physics at the University of Maryland.

He is a leading light in the theory of superstrings. Don't ask me to summarize his field of study, I simply lack the brainpower to understand, let alone, explain this esoteric research area. What I do know is that these scientists must be extremely good at mathematics (algebra), as good as or better than most professional mathematicians, in addition to being full-time particle physicists.

Affirmative action won't help you cut it, you either can do it or not.

Now I'll just quote a few passages from the interview that jumped out at me:

Q: When and how did you first become interested in physics and mathematics?

A: Well the answer to the question has, unfortunately, a number of parts. The first part is when I was about eight years old. My father brought home a book one day and it was about space travel. And in this book I learned that the stars in the sky were not just lights but places to go. And suddenly my universe got very much larger and I knew that science was the way, science and technology, the way to get to such places. So that was part one. Then a little bit later we had a set of Encyclopedia Britannica and I was probably in the third grade, and I was bored one day, just thumbing through one of the volumes. And I came across Schrodinger’s Equation, and I was amazed. I knew it was mathematics because I saw an equal to sign. Then I saw a bunch of symbols, Greek letters and partial derivatives, which I had absolutely no idea of what it meant. It had some sort of strange attraction to me, because it was like looking at notes on bars for music, but not knowing how to read the music. So I felt some affinity and said, gee I’d like one day to know what that thing means.

(...)

For someone who carries out a life in research, in some sense that part of life never changes. It’s like you always have a homework assignment that’s due the next day, and you keep on churning and churning through it. So it’s the benefit, it’s not the actual pain.

The conclusion I draw is that talent is never enough -- you must have parents that value learning (obviously Gates' parents did, why else invest in an expensive set of the Encyclopedia Britannica).

And second, the value of hard work must be instilled at an early age so that it becomes second nature. Although Prof. Gates does not explicitly credit his parents in the short interview, I think it is a safe assumption that his work attitude was something he learned at home, not in school.

[FLAUSA]

I agree with that, but saying that there is someone more qualified is different from saying that the person who was hired is not competent.

You comment begs the question: "Should the most qualified be hired or someone who is just competent?"

[WOSG]

"The differences in homework completion are not necessarily signs of lower-level academic disengagement," Ferguson says. "Instead, they're signs of skill differences, and in family-background supports."

Okay, I read up to here, saw the critics with the usual complaints, then noticed this "family-background supports" comment. This critic is actually MAKING the POINT for the researcher! In arguing as to why those differences in attention to educational accomplishment take place, he is admitting the differences do in fact exist, which is the more fundamental data point raised!

[WOSG]

" When he was confronted about this, he told the mother that, in fact, she would not be held back (which was the mothers wish) and would continue on to the 7th grade regardless of whether the student was prepared or not. In fact, he told her there was nothing she could do about it. The decision was not in her hands."

My God, what an abomination... parents without any control over the miseducation of their children.

We desperately need a voucher system in this country.

[WOSG]

"I see no reason why a parent wouldn't insist that the work is completed, on a daily basis."

After reading this article and the many posts about how noninvolved some parents are, and you still have to ask? Many parents it seems abdicate total responsibility at the school bus. And most public schools let that happen, they've been beaten up by too man parents 'defending' their own children's right to be lazy.

Sometimes parents need a push.

In the private school we send our children to, if you dont sign the homework completion, the child gets punished.
This is a VERY effective way to get the parent to stay involved EACH NIGHT in the homework. My wife forgot to sign it one time, even though our daughter did the work, and our daughter was punished (no recess) the next day. My wife was mortified over having been responsible for that, we havent forgotten to sign it since.
This is 2nd grade, btw, and our daughter reads on a 5th grade level thanks to this good school - Strickland Christian School in Austin, Tx.

[Jhoffa_]

He concluded that there was a culture among black students to reject behaviors perceived to be "white," ...

This is nothing but reverse class/race envy... Getting "whitey" this way is a path to self destruction.

The Blacks aren't alone though.

You would be amazed just how much some people will rationalize, rather than consider a less than flattering observation of themselves.

There's a bunch of people who would rather knowingly believe a flattering lie than to confront a mildly unplesant and completely correctable truth.

[Sonny M]

The most racist people I ever met were Africans.

Thats very odd, From my high school, through colleges and beyond, I never really encountered any africans, with very very few exceptions, who would be racists. They were generally hardworking and good students. Granted, they did seem angry at the african americans, but it was moslty because they felt that the african americans, in there eyes were lazy and whiney.

I felt bad watching some of them change, I knew one guy who felt that the whole "racism" was the equal of crying wolf, by the time he graduated, he had started to become more paranoid since he was always being told there was racism and he just didn't see it. Believe it or not, the test scores of blacks, actually drops down more if you take africans and carribeans, and 1st generation people out.

I never remember one of them condoning genocide, I saw the opposite, with the almost expectation, that America should go to the homeland, invade and install a democracy there, these people wanted interventionalsim and not a one ever complained about americans having to much freedom.

[tortoise]

You comment begs the question: "Should the most qualified be hired or someone who is just competent?"

Generally speaking, you have a legal responsibility to the investors in a company to hire the most qualified people available to you.

[dagnabbit]

The elephant in the living room.

[bruinbirdman]

"Speak the truth, like this guy, and risk everything because the attack dogs will in fact show up and do their best to ruin you so you can't be heard again, and so that if you are, you have no credibility. "

Sociology is not a science.

It is a nonacademic discipline created by the state to supply supposedly credentialed employees for the state. (Think about it. What do you do with a degree in "sociology?)"

Try to introduce some science and you reap the whirlwind of your colleagues.

yitbos

[A CA Guy]

We need zero extra money pumped into education.
I had both private and public education. Some classes were 60 deep and we did fine because we were prepared to learn.

It is completely a home problem in desperate need of self responsibility.

[Pan_Yans Wife]

I take parenting and education of my children very seriously. And, based on my own experience with my kindergartener, and the amount of homework, and make-up work from sick days, I have a good idea of what he is learning, when he is learning it, how he is learning it, and what assistance he needs in the home.

I do understand that the school would need to correct any problems with homework assignments not being completed. However, the problem would start at home, at three o'clock, when my son arrives, and I check his bag, go through his assignments and see that he brought everything home to me, as scheduled. If not, the discipline promptly starts at home, before I have even contacted his teacher.

Homework is to be done at home, and because of this, his completion of it, is my responsibility. And the consequences that arise from not completing it in a timely matter, are as much my responsibility as his teacher's... let alone his own.

[Henrietta]

And besides, they know that they don't have to compete; Affirmative Action will do the job for them.