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Doesn't work for anybody. For a woman with a sex drive, it's not necessary. I know some real losers whose wives are all over them. After twenty years of marriage, as well as doing a lot of marriage counseling, I have come to the conclusion that for women without a sex drive, nothing works. As a matter of fact, all of those nice guy efforts will merely be interpreted as an effort to get sex. Sometimes it's hopeless, and the promises are just cruel manipulation.

This is the most fascinating post on the entire thread. Thank you. Let me ask some follow-up questions.

1. What do you suggest for a man whose wife has little or no sex drive, attributed to peri-menopausal stuff, stress, vaginal dryness, anger at her husband for being too successful and not doting on her, and the fact that her father walked out on her mother after 20 years of marriage? The books and her doctors all tell her that she would be happier, and feel better, if she would shut the Hell up and consent to sex.

2. I agree completely that nice guy efforts are counter-productive. I do 75% or more of the housework working more than full-time and she only works part time. My counselor (wife refuses to go to counseling because asserts that the problems are entirely mine and not hers) has instructed me that I have to completely change my paradigm to not give a crap about sex and be satisfied with sex once every one or two months. One awful stretch we went without any intimacy for seven months. Why stay, you ask? Two children and ruinous financial standing if I leave. Cowardice, too, I suppose. And societal shame at my failure.

My question: am I wrecking my own future by staying? Am I a total wuss? I invite any freepers to offer an opinion, and you can all scald me any way you like.

That goes beyond the beyonds, IMHO>

What I would give to have a husband who wouldn't sigh heavily every time I asked him to hold the baby so I could... go to the bathroom, cook dinner, run the bath water, etc.

I also work full-time. When I say I am dead tired, I mean fall-asleep-on-your-feet tired.

He works until 2PM, hangs out his mother's house until I get home and then shows up right about dinner time. Oh and did I mention that every weekend he has to have an EIGHT HOUR band practice for a band that has NEVER played a single money making gig?

I'd love to have a sex life like I used to, but I am just so exhausted!

we went without any intimacy for seven months

To men intimacy means sex....women need to feel loved and cared about in a tender way. That means listening to her, showing her respect, looking into her eyes - really caring. Saying words like, "You look pretty today" doesn't count. Anybody can say that to anybody. Give her the 'intimacy' she wants and you'll get the 'intimacy' you want - otherwise, we'd just be a bunch of sluts with low-self esteem, wouldn't we?

To men intimacy means sex
Bingo. The more you focus on sex, the more your wife begins to think that the only important thing about her is sex. She begins to feel that you think she is worthless unless she gives you sex, which makes her less likely to want to give it to you. It is a vicious cycle, but at this point you are the only one who can break it. Yes, you.

You have to find a way to let her know that you would still love her without sex. (Or wouldn't you?) Didn't you fall in love before you had sex? What did you do then? Hold hands, make out, spontaneous shoulder rubs? All without expecting sex to happen immediately afterward. (wishing is not the same as expecting)

Men complain that they do those things and their wives think they are doing them only to get sex. Well that is because you ARE doing them only to get sex (we really CAN read your minds, you know), and if the wife doesn't put out that night the man thinks he's wasted his time. You're going to have to operate on her time scale now, and things aren't going to change overnight. If you do those things consistently, sincerely, without in any way hinting that you want sex, you might just get her to begin to believe that you still love her, for herself, not just for sex. And that is the only way to enable her to give herself fully to you again. She needs to be able to be intimate without sex.

Been there 2 cents,

It is true that hormones can cause a lack of desire in a woman but not to the extreme you describe. She has a problem and blames you for not dealing with it. Therefore, you are to go to therapy. You are meant to be loved and have it be expressed sexually. I say if she does not want you it is her problem if you have not inspired negative feelings. The one big element which causes a woman to want any man is RESPECT. If you let yourself be walked on and do not draw lines in the sand, a woman will not respect you. Being nice is one thing. Being walked on is another. As for your reasons for staying, the money and the kids, it is understandable. But you will wish you had left more and more as time passes. If you leave, you are not a failure. Do not base your life on what other people think. Your children will always love you and you will not have much money, but you will not have to beg for love and sex and you won't have to hear every day how you fall short no matter what you do. Make some friends who you can count on and take baby steps to get the confidence to leave, but if you stay, don't lower yourself to ask for sex from someone who dishes it out every seven months. You are worth more than that. (That is my opinion)

You need counseling....both of you.

If that does not work then you have to really review your options.

Divorce...costly and horrible on children at home.

Wait till they leave home and protect your assets in the meantime without being a punitive ogre. Be reasonable...you are still going to be responsible to keep her lifestyle fairly up to par. Make plans.

Ouch...this is tuff....I could see being discreet ...very discreet during your wait. Hard call. If she has completely cut you off from intimacy.

It's a minefield...good luck, BE SMART!

"Cowardice, too, I suppose. And societal shame at my failure."

IF -- and I highly stress IF -- your marriage is a living hell and cannot or is not worth saving then -- and only then -- should the cowardice and shame aspects be relevent.

I think the first can be solved by addressing the second. You only have one life to live, one chance to find happiness. When it's all said and done you don't get to say, "Gee, I stuck that out too long for no good reason and never really enjoyed my adult life. Think I'll go back and do over." In other words, how could other people's opinion matter half as much as your own fulfillment in life. It's your life, not theirs. If they are worthy of having their opinion matter to you, they will understand. If they don't get it, who cares. Are they gonna come and grant you a "do over" on judgement day? I don't think so.

Now, if you take all that to heart it should give you courage. Won't make it easy, but important things in life rarely are.

Best of luck.

I understand your frustration, and I commend your willingness to stay in the relationship you've commited to. I've dealt with this issue in my own life, as well as in counseling with many other couples.

The simplistic, blame-the-man answers here are pathetic. There are men reading this now who do their best to be model husbands, in chores, child care, compliments, consideration, etc. and find themselves nearly celibate. Meanwhile, the lazy, fat, hairy, womanizing drunk next door has a great sex life with a wife who can't keep her hands off him.

Let me just offer this observation: the person with the greatest needs is subject to the person with lesser needs. Not very romantic, I know, but true.

Lack of a sex drive puts a woman in a position of power. A strong sex drive makes a man "needy".

If your sex drive is far stronger than your wife's, she's figured out by now - probably without even realizing it - that she can get 75% of the housework done by holding out the "carrot" that things will get better if only ...

There comes a time when a man finally determines that all the effort, all the walking on eggshells, all the efforts to somehow make things work are a waste of time. If you stop trying, what's the worst that could happen? She'll get mad, and you won't get sex?

True unconditional love is virtually impossible over the long-term. When you realize that you get the same results whether you try or not, you stop. It's human nature. Most of us did it as teens - "if I'm gonna get in trouble anyway, I might as well have some fun" or "I tried my best and got an F. I can do that without even trying"

When you stop trying, your wife no longer holds that power. Better yet if you can stifle any outward expression of "neediness". At that point, the likelihood is that there will be a much-needed shift in the power structure of your marriage. That might make things better, since many women seem to be repulsed by a desperate man, and attracted to a strong man.

If it doesn't make you more attractive to your wife, it will, at least, help you maintain some sanity and self-respect.