Replies

Thank you. That was very appropos to what I'm trying to express.

Would one want someone to pretend to love you over the long haul? If you knew someone was only pretending to love you, wouldn't you long for the real thing?

Likewise, sex being for the mutual pleasure of both, would you want someone who was merely going through the motions but not really sexually aroused by or sexually attracted to you over the long haul? Wouldn't you want someone who want you in that way.

It seem to me that if the sex is not genuine, that would be a clue that something is wrong. Just accepting unresponsive sex, collecting on you marital obligations from the other spouse, would be sweeping the problems under the rug. (Likewise the one having sex out of obligation is also deferring the dealing with real missing elements in the relationship).

What I haven't figured out is what is the goal of allowing the sexual relationship to languish in this realm of obligation with one partner not having the desire necessary to sustain an intimate sharing loving sexual relationship?

This has been an incredibly interesting thread. I'm curious of your take on this hypothetical:

A couple has been married for 40 years. At age 60, the husband still has a sex drive, but the wife's has waned to nothing. In your opinion, should she have sex with him on occasion merely for his gratification?

Part of it is that for men sex isn't as much about love and emotions as it is for women. Sex to men is like chocolate to women. Chocolate satisfies you physically not emotionally and sex does the same for men. It's a lot more fun for them of course if you are as into it as they are but in the long run they still want the physical gratification whether you are as into it or not. It's not that they are being pigs about it, it's just that it makes them feel manly and satisfied and they need that. Women want sex more to feel loved and closer to their partner and take offense when men don't treat it with the same respect they do. Our brains just work differently.

What I haven't figured out is what is the goal of allowing the sexual relationship to languish in this realm of obligation with one partner not having the desire necessary to sustain an intimate sharing loving sexual relationship?

Well, perhaps that is where patience comes into play. Deep deep intimacy takes years, I think, to develop. And here I have to confess that I am an optimist where marriage is concerned. Every marriage goes through seasons of lack of desire, boredom, etc., but seasons pass. IF (and I realize this is a big 'if') both partners are committed to the marriage and to loving each other, then the physical relationship will not languish in mediocrity forever. I've read what some had said on this thread about men giving their wives help in the kitchen, with the children, and what some have said about wives always expecting more and more, all the while dangling the carrot of sex in front of their husbands. I've also read comments referring to how some men only consider their own satisfaction, not caring whether or not their wives enjoy this part of their marriage or not, she's just obligated.

The bottom line to me is this: Love is desiring to act in the best interest of another person, without too much regard for "what do I get out of it?" If both my husband and myself have this attitude toward each other, then everything else has at least an even chance of falling into place. Barring illness, I will not let my body become so out of shape and overweight that my husband doesn't desire me. I will not criticize him constantly. I will make him feel 'safe' with me, no matter what happens, no matter how he 'performs'. I will not make a habit of always being 'too tired' or 'having a headache.' I will tell him that he is attractive to me, that I desire him, and let him know when he pleases me. My husband will do the same sorts of things for me, not entirely or merely on a reciprocal basis, but because we are both focused on the same goal, which is giving 100% for each other.

What to do about the marriage when one just doesn't care? I know of marriages that continue in this way. There is more to marriage than the physical, and I think our society is a little too obsessed with "good sex." But I still go back to that bottom line, which is desiring the highest good for your marriage partner. If one can get to that point and stay there, there can be hope that the other person will come around.

Just accepting unresponsive sex, collecting on you marital obligations from the other spouse, would be sweeping the problems under the rug.

Just denying sex (unresponsive or enthusiastic), collecting on your marital obligations from the other spouse (to not force you into anything you don't want to do), would also be sweeping the problems under the rug.

Ignoring the need doesn't mean it's not there.