Posted on 05/15/2003 12:50:59 PM PDT by WaveThatFlag
Edited on 04/22/2004 11:48:54 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
A few times in my 12 years writing this column, I've stumbled on a topic so unsettling to readers that it demanded a follow-up. Last month was one of those times, when my story on the problems of dual-income, no-sex marriages drew a torrent of e-mail that read as if I'd jabbed an open wound.
(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...
I have an adopted relative like this, adopted after a harsh early life, and her mother has said that trying to fill her up with what she needs is like trying to fill a swimming pool with a colander. Nothing has seemed to be enough, and it everything has always been "about her".
I still think that there can be hope for people like this, if they will just wake up and come to their senses, and start to appreciate the good things they do have.
As in "Rhett, where will I go, what will I do?" and Rhett answers Scarlett, saying, "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a d***." I think you're right. When a person has totally tuned someone out, there IS no relationship.
Of course I am using the word "you" in third person here - in place of the word "one" for any one who mistakes this rhetorical statement for a personal attack - some of us here do seem genuinely grumpy.
No offense taken! :-D I'm not easily offended.
The need that every person has is to be unconditionally loved. There really is no such thing as uncondtional love as an adult. There is unconditional love available to children and it is extremely important for children to feel that unconditional love. If a person does not get it as a child , they will really never experience it, which makes life very difficult.
the key is that while for men - doing it right is more obvious and similar - womens parts are much more obscure and the right way is more varied. There are dozend of books - try amazon.com and some suggentions on this thread. And experiment - and repeat the experiments. Maturity and pregnancies change her hormones and her body and what isn't a turn on this year - just might be a turn on next year. Attitude is the key - make sure you communicate directly that you believe the marriage bed is a two party endevor and always make it a safe place for her. Ask her what she wants until she learns to tell you what she likes.
I know that some ofthe other guys on this thread think that you shouldn't have to - but sometimes you have to choose effectiveness over principle and asking her gets you to "doing it right" faster than holding on to the principle that is is her fault for not asking. In this case "doing it right" is much better than "being right". Creating an open environment in this area will flow out to other communication areas and save you a lot of fighting time down the road.
As an aside - A pastor I know says that one rule in a household will eliminate the vast majority of marital fights. You can fight all day long and late into the night as long as you agree to only fight when you are naked. It is kind of the extreme version of picturing peole in their underwear to eliminate fear of public speaking. But I swear you absolutely cannot stay mad for very long while the two of you are completely vulnerably naked - and its a pretty funny situation to boot. An ounce of humor beats a pound of chocolate - and it will sustain you much better through the difficult times.
Please ignor the typos - I am in a hurry to get off to work.
How does one do it right?
the key is that while for men - doing it right is more obvious and similar - woemns parts are much more obscure and the right way is more varied. There are dozends of books - try amazon.com and some suggentions on this thread. And experiment - and repeat the experiments. Maturity and pregnancies change her hormones and her body and what isn't a turn on this year - just might be a turn on next year. Attitude is the key - make sure you communicate directly that you believe the marriage bed is a two party endevor and always make it a safe place for her. Ask her what she wants until she learns to tell you what she likes.
I know that some ofthe other guys on this thread think that you shouldn't have to - but sometimes you have to choose effectiveness over principle and asking her gets you to "doing it right" faster than holding on to the principle that is is her fault for not asking. In this case "doing it right" is much better than "being right". Creating an open environment in this area will flow out to other communication areas and save you a lot of fighting time down the road.
As an aside - A pastor I know says that one rule in a household will eliminate the vast majority of marital fights. You can fight all day long and late into the night as long as you agree to only fight when you are naked. - It is kind of the extreme version of picturing peole in their underwear to eliminate fear of public speaking. But I swear you absolutely cannot stay mad for very long while the two of you are completely vulnerable - and its a pretty funny situation to boot. An ounce of humor beats a pound of chocolate - and it will sustain you much better through the difficult times.
Yep. LOL!
I think it may, most times be faster for a man, but just because it takes a little longer for a woman doesn't mean it's harder for a woman. See post 1008 on the thread.
And I have a very giving hubby in bed but it doesn't matter how giving he is or how loving he is, there are still 2 kids in the house that makes distraction the key word.
I do understand that, we also have a child (adult now) but a couple really does need to take time for each other. There are always going to be distractions. After your children are grown then you may have parents that need to be taken care of. There will always be things that get in the way if we let them.
One thing I know, I have no regrets about the times I may have given in when I wasn't really in the mood but I do regret some of the times I didn't.
I think this is all I'm going to say on this thread. I might need a new name if I continue.
And such a fellow is certainly no better than a woman who does such a thing. He might as well be a boy-brat, because he could either do something about it to please his wife, but he loves his own self-esteem more than her.
She just has to make a decision not to be an enabler for his insecurity. Sometimes being nice and sensitive just isn't the right thing to do. Of course she has to be careful not to destroy him, but she shouldn't let him be comfortable with the situation either.
No, but by definition, denial indicates that the person is not facing the situation as it truly exists. The man I referred to, from what his wife tells me, seems to think that as long as they have some semblance of sex, she should be satisfied with it, and to indicate she isn't is communicating to him that he's a failure.
She just has to make a decision not to be an enabler for his insecurity. Sometimes being nice and sensitive just isn't the right thing to do. Of course she has to be careful not to destroy him, but she shouldn't let him be comfortable with the situation either.
I guess she figures he's under extreme pressure in his job life and some other things that have gone badly (like a child with a life-threatening condition requiring constant care, and the overwhelming medical bills that come with that) so she has to build him up in this area instead of demanding her own rights--even to her own hurt. Women like that used to be considered loving and faithful, instead of "enablers".
If the situation you describe is acute, then she probably should drop it until the kid is better and the job situation improves. However, if their life is chronically like this, some changes are in order.
However, the fact that women have their own weaknesses doesn't give men a free pass to wallow in theirs without effort to improve.
I absolutely agree. Just don't assume that you have everyone else's weaknesses pegged.
My husband reads computer magazines all the time in order to keep his skills sharp, but rolls his eyes at the mention of a book to keep our relationship working well. He doesn't think he needs a book to tell him how.
I've read the books. Dr. Harley's, Tim Lahaye's, the Mars/Venus thing, as well as a bunch of others. What you say about your husband, I can say about my wife. Won't read them. Doesn't think she needs them. She finds the books that give sexual advice to men, like "Intended for Pleasure" or "The Act of Marriage" to be kinky.
My advice was directed at men on how to get their wives interested.
I understand, and have no problem with the advice. It's the idea that your advice is a cure-all. It isn't. There are other types of men out there, as well as other types of women.
The truth is that men are usually more interested in keeping the frequency high to keep themselves satisfied rather than looking for ways to increase the frequency by making it more satisfying for her.
The key word being "usually". Did you know that some women would rather not bother, and that a man who tries to do more than "get it over with" is seen by them as a sex-obsessed pervert?
I stick by my original points
1) if you do it right, she will chase you for it.
Sometimes, Probably even "usually", but certainly not always.
2) great sex covers a multitude of sins
Again, sometimes, and maybe usually, but not always, as you imply.
and although I didn’t say it originally – 3) if you are having sex with your wife mostly for your own satisfaction and her satisfaction is optional or irrelevant – it isn't much more than glorified m-bation.
I suppose I'll surprise you here, since you obviously think any man with an uninterested wife is a selfish pig, but I completely agree with you.
You see, that's the problem some men face. Sex is empty, and feels selfish and unfulfilling, because the wife is not interested at all.
In that case, your "advice" is just salt in the wound, really no different than blaming a woman for her wife-beating husband. Telling a man who has read the books, done the domestic thing, and tried to "do it right" that it's still his fault is really just naive, but feels heartless.
A wise man seeks advice but a fool hates correction - don't be so busy defending yourself that you miss out on a chance to learn from others.
Perhaps you would be a more effective "teacher" if you didn't naively lump all of your "students" in the same category.
True story...
"Ummm...ah....ummmh"
"Ah, honey?"
"Ummm?"
A little voice beside the bed announces sleepily, "Mama, I'm thirsty."
Congratulations. I wish the very best for you and your bride-to-be.
P.S. Make sure you look at her parents and how they interact, especially how her mother treats her father. :-)
A friend's wife is experiencing depression, and NOTHING he does works, including all the stuff that used to work fine. There are women who (whether temporarily or permanently) are unable to "get into it", and some people are as unable to understand it as the rock-hard teenage boy is able to conceive that he might someday become impotent
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