Young Conservative needs help in Liberal-Dominated History Class

self | May 8, 2003 | myself

[swaimh]

as we approach the end of the year in history class, we have geared up for a series of debates. my topics to debate are the situation with north korea and supply-side economics (which is what conservatives stand for).

north korea is a big mess, i know that.

the economics thing is weird though. i have made the following points: -deficit spending is healthy for the economy in that it allows the US to fund programs outside the restrictions of the budget (which allowed us to defeat the USSR in the Cold War). -Bush is not responsible for the economy: the economy follows a cycle, and the signs of a slowing economy were evident in the last years of the clinton administration.

i need more info to base my arguements on. one of my ultra-liberal classmates said that clinton had a surplus. i'm not sure of this, and with AP exams tomorrow, i have no time to research for myself.

anything would be appreciated. any links, info, or just opinions. i would like for just one opportunity to let loose and show them why they're really wrong and snap them back to reality.

[Jean S]

i need more info to base my arguements on. one of my ultra-liberal classmates said that clinton had a surplus. i'm not sure of this, and with AP exams tomorrow, i have no time to research for myself.

We're not here to help you with your homework. You'll do best in life if you do your own research and don't depend on others to help you.
Good luck.

[swaimh]

i'm only asking for info off the top of your head. i didn't mean to sound like i didn't want to do my own research, i'd love to. i'm really only interested in people's opinions about this.

thanks anyway

[Texas_Jarhead]

I'm no expert but maybe I can contribute something.

Congressional budgets are contemplated using a 10 year projection. Before the Republican coongressional victories in 1994 the Klinton admin was projecting 2 trillion in deficits over the next 10 years. The surpluses were only such when exluding off-the-books budget items. The so-called surpluses were a result of the the Republican takeover. The dollar is a fiat currency and an instrument of debt. WIthout a national debt the fed could not print dollars. So if there was no debt then there would be no currency. The economy does not turn on a dime. I think it is sade to safe that it is generally accepted that the economy lags current condition by at least 1-2 years. THese aren't too specific but I'm just trying to help a little.

[Texas_Jarhead]

sorry for all the misspellings etc..

[Jean S]

I assume you're graduating soon?
Some advise off the top of my head: start your sentences with capital letters.

[mrfixit514]

If you look at the fiscal policies of the US since WWII, we have followed a modified Keynesian approach. It calls for budget deficits during a recession. It also calls for a balanced budget in an expansion. Tax cuts and budget deficits are exactly what is called for. Bush is right on the money (no pun intended)to get this economy moving again.

[boris]

"-deficit spending is healthy for the economy in that it allows the US to fund programs outside the restrictions of the budget"

I take it you have not read widely in economics.

Suggestions: Economics in One Lesson by Henry Hazlitt; Human Action by Ludwig von Mises.

--Boris

[InvisibleChurch]

one of my ultra-liberal classmates said that clinton had a surplus.

it means that xxxlinton taxed too much money from the American people... if he doesn't understand that, then say xxxlinton "took" too much money from the American people ... if he is happy with that then tell him he is welcome to give extra in taxes every year but to leave your income alone

[swaimh]

It's only based on things I've heard.

[keithtoo]

The GOP class of 1994 is what was responsible for the budget surplus. It took them 3 runs by Clinton to get it signed. Clinton said it would ruin the economy. The 'genius' Robert Rubin said it couldn't be done in 6 years like the GOP insisted on. Clinton and Rubin A) said it couldn't be done, then B) they said it might be doable in 10 years, but not 6, then C) The Republican congress INSISTED that it be signed and, finally it was. As it turns out, the budget went into the black in 4 YEARS!!!!

The Democrates took as a matter of dogma that 'you cant just outgrow deficits, you must raise taxes'. The GOP said 'of course you can grow the economy enough thru lower taxes (supply side economics) to raise enug taxes thru high economic growth alone to outrun deficits. IT ACTUALLY HAPPENED AS WE SAID IT WOULD!!!

The only good thing about deficits is that deficits RESTRICT THE FURTHER GROWTH OF GOVERNMENT because not even a die-hard Lib will think up new social programs if the deficit is too big.

That being said, the government is too big, but the US Economy is so HUGE ($11 Trillion) that a 'measely' $3-400 billion dollar deficit is small (2-3%) by comparison.

As Milton Friedman has said, and I paraphrase 'the worst thing about big government is not necessarily the spending alone, it is the encroachment of government into the freedoms of its citizens'.

Hope this helps.

[Norse]

Jean,

Drop your self-righteous attitude

Swaimh,

go pick up a book called, "the way the world works" by Jude Wanniski. The guy coined supply side economics

[Drew68]

You'll do best in life if you do your own research and don't depend on others to help you.

Personally, I'd consider posting queries on an internet forum to be a legitimate form of research.

Just my $0.02.

[groanup]

"one of my ultra-liberal classmates said that clinton had a surplus"

First, there never was a true surplus. Go to the Treasury website and find the talley for the national debt. Notice that it continued to increase during the Clinton years. The national debt was absorbed by Social Security. Next, recall that the congress was swept by Republicans in 1994. Go to Bigcharts.com and notice that the stock market really started to take off after that. The "surplus" had a lot to do with the lower capital gains taxes that astute people used to sell low basis stock while Republicans were in power and the on-fire Reagan/Republican economy that generated larger income tax revenues. Finally, look deep inside yourself and ask the question: Why doesn't anyone who nags about the deficit nag about spending? They only nag about taxes. Why?

[wardaddy]

Congress controls the purse strings ultimately.

Klintoon had the benefit of an unprecedented economic boom to preside over and the advantage of an economy already on the rebound when he first took office.

W has the fiscal disadvantage of a relatively neverending war and an economy tanking when he took office. That economy is still "recovering" and settling out from all the exuberance and speculation. There is plenty of capital out there, folks just don't yet know where to invest with any certainty.

North Korea will require a complete overhaul and lacks any past experience with unbridled capitalism even on the small scale that post WWII Japan had from the ealy 1900s.

Best bet for North Korea is a merger ala East and West Germany with the South. South Korea knows capitalism about as well as anyone...though it borders on out and out cronyism.

How to get North Korea and South Korea back together is the question. War or a collapse from within.

The key is not us but China. Without China, North Korea implodes.

Free Market economics are always 80-90% supply side except in wartime.

My nutshell...good luck.

[goodnesswins]

I'm not an economist AT ALL...but consider the following....put your classmates on the defensive....

Ask your classmates "do your parents have mortgages on their homes?" "Any loans for cars?" (They'll likely say "yes.") Well, why? Answer: Because it's good to use OTHER people's money to build assets and wealth when NECESSARY.

Ask your classmates what percent of the current budget is the deficit (I think that's the right terminology.) Fact is its smaller than at most other times in history.

Ask your classmates if they have student loans? Why? Why didn't they pay for their education up front?

Ask your classmates if they would rather their girlfriends, mothers and future daughters wear burqua's? Sometimes you HAVE TO FUND something for the FUTURE...and that's what the US government does when it needs to.

Hope you're getting the idea.

Good luck.....and keep asking questions.

[facedown]

[goodnesswins]

HUH....go have a drink....were you never 17 and in college? (NO, I didn't think so.) Free Republic is one of the BEST places for Research.

[groanup]

"I take it you have not read widely in economics"

Well I have and still do. The myth of evil deficit spending is just that - a myth.

[Consort]

Surplus: A term used to describe money stolen from the wallets of tax payers that has not yet been spent on wasteful and addictive government programs after most of it is siphoned off by the massive bureaucracy. Syn: Filthy lucre.