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Sheriff's task force to search cars in Milwaukee for guns
Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel ^ | 7 May 03 | Reid J. Epstein

Posted on 05/07/2003 5:51:01 PM PDT by Mr. Silverback

Milwaukee County Sheriff David A. Clarke Jr. announced Tuesday he has established a gun crime task force that will rely on so-called consent searches of cars in the city, a practice that has been restricted among Milwaukee police.

Police Chief Arthur Jones was conspicuously absent from Clarke's news conference, attended by Mayor John O. Norquist, County Executive Scott Walker, U.S. Attorney Steven M. Biskupic and others. Clarke said Jones was "not invited, for no particular reason."

The chief said later that he didn't respond to Clarke's earlier effort to involve him because "it wasn't necessary," and that he hoped deputies' searches don't violate the rights of innocent citizens.

Consent searches, in which police get drivers' permission to search vehicles stopped for minor infractions, can turn up evidence of more serious crimes. Proponents say the tactic helps police find drugs and guns.

But critics say the practice invites abuse. In 1999, as concerns about racial profiling heated up nationwide, Jones changed Police Department policy to require that officers be able to demonstrate a "reasonable and articulable suspicion of evidence of contraband contained within the vehicle" if they seek consent to search.

Both Clarke and Jones have been mentioned as possible candidates for the 2004 mayor's race, but Clarke said Tuesday's announcement had nothing to do with politics. He said he has been planning the gun initiative for six months because he wanted to give deputies "every resource at our disposal" to combat gun violence.

"Our officers aren't going to need 17 stamps of approval to get things done," he said. "They're going to be able to make decisions themselves."

Clarke calls the new task force the Gun Reduction Interdiction Program, or GRIP. Sixteen deputies, who have taken an extra 40 hours of constitutional rights training, with work in pairs from 6 p.m. to 2 a.m. and wear special black uniforms, rather than the standard brown.

Clarke said new scanners will allow GRIP deputies to monitor Police Department radio frequencies to better determine where illegal gun activity is taking place. Deputies and police officers cannot communicate with their standard radios - and still won't be able to.

"It's very silly, but we can overcome these things," Clarke said of the communication barrier.

Jones' absence 'telling' Robert "Woody" Welch, the chairman of the Fire and Police Commission, called Jones' absence from the task force "telling."

"One of the primary duties of a chief of police is to work cooperatively with other forms of government," Welch said.

In a March 18 letter to Jones, Clarke invited the Police Department to join the gun program, which he launched April 1.

"Our agencies working together in a cooperative effort by sharing intelligence and manpower would be a very positive step toward the prevention, control and reduction of crime in the city of Milwaukee," Clarke wrote. He said Jones has yet to respond to the letter.

"I don't want to read into the fact that I haven't heard from him," Clarke said. "But what do I have to do?"

Jones said he spoke with Clarke last week about an unrelated matter. "He never mentioned this to me," Jones said.

He expressed concerns about aspects of GRIP.

"Allowing officers to stop and search people, I don't think that that's in the best interest of the citizens of the city of Milwaukee," Jones said.

At the news conference, Norquist said the sheriff's initiative will help deter violent criminals.

"The main reason criminals commit crime is they think they can get away with it," Norquist said.

Some aldermen later expressed general support, though at least one shared Jones' concerns.

Ald. Tom Nardelli, chairman of the council's Public Safety Committee, said everyone can support reducing the number of illegal guns on city streets.

"It really doesn't make a difference who's doing it," he said. "If the sheriff has the kind of resources in his department, and the backing of Scott Walker and the County Board to do it, that's great."

Ald. Willie Hines agreed, with one caveat: "I would hope, however, that innocent individuals aren't harassed and their rights aren't violated in the process."

In December, the Fire and Police Commission directed Jones to develop a plan to fight violent crime. In response, Jones placed up to 300 officers per day on overtime, later reducing that to a maximum of 186 officers. Last week, he cut the extra patrols back to between 4 p.m. and 4 a.m.

Under the sheriff's initiative, deputies are exclusively assigned to gun crime.

"This will be their sole focus," he said. "I can't have them tied up for two or three hours investigating a traffic accident."

Clarke said Milwaukeeans are "not safe in our own homes. We're hostages behind security systems and locked doors.

But police department statistics show violent crime in the city is down 17% compared with last year, with shootings down 26%, the number of people shot down 19% and the number of gun-related incidents down 21%. As of Tuesday afternoon, there have been 33 homicides in Milwaukee, vs. 34 at this point in 2002.

"David Clarke's assertions are not true," Jones said. "The Milwaukee Police Department is effective in reducing crime in city of Milwaukee," Jones said. "The numbers speak for themselves."

Greg J. Borowski of the Journal Sentinel staff contributed to this report.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; US: Wisconsin
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist; privacy; privacylist
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To: JimRed
Follow up question: is refusal to give consent to search probable cause for a search warrant?

That's when they bring in the dogs. SOP in the Drug War, time and court tested.

101 posted on 05/08/2003 5:46:57 AM PDT by Wolfie
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To: JimRed
Follow up question: is refusal to give consent to search probable cause for a search warrant?

Exactly. The state troopers here were playing that little game about 10-20 yrs ago.

I am ~so~ glad to live in Lexington County. Sherriff Metts continues to do a great job, and the police are NICE, even when they have to write you a ticket. Our crime rates are low and people are happy. Step across the county line into Richland County, and it's a whole 'nother place.

I find myself on the anti-cop side of debates often on FR, partly because I have had some bad experiences and partly because I am so apalled by what I read. But the bad experiences have been with other jurisdictions, and maybe the reason I have been so apalled by the stories is because I'm spoiled by the excellent service our local sherrif and his deputies render.

The few times that I have needed to avail myself of their services, I have found them responsive, thorough and sincere in their desire to help -- and I am by no means wealthy(trailer trash here).

The world would be a better place if every police force were like the Lexington County Sherriff's Department.

102 posted on 05/08/2003 5:55:04 AM PDT by Yeti
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To: _Jim
THIS is point those who *blindly* support the Second Amendment FAIL to comprehend - firearm ownership is not for every one - there HAS to be some qualification such as sanity (sound mind), of-age, clean, non-felony record ...

Oh boy, now you've gone and done it. The mouth-breathing knee-jerking unreasonable inconsiderate antisocial absolutists will be coming out of the woodwork...

103 posted on 05/08/2003 6:05:28 AM PDT by Chemist_Geek ("Drill, R&D, and conserve" should be our watchwords! Energy independence for America!)
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Comment #104 Removed by Moderator

To: Lurker

Where exactly is the word 'felon' found in the 2nd Amendment?

I'll hang out for a bit until you find it.

So, you believe that incarcerated prisoners ought to have arms? You believe that persons who have proven their inability to live peacefully in civil society shouldn't be punished for attempting to gain an advantage over ther potential next victim fellow Free Citizens?

105 posted on 05/08/2003 6:12:07 AM PDT by Chemist_Geek ("Drill, R&D, and conserve" should be our watchwords! Energy independence for America!)
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To: RogueIsland
Unfortunately, in some states it is a condition of your driver's license that you agree to take the test if requested, and you'll have your license revoked if you don't. Nice, huh?

Not "unfortunately" at all. It's very clear, here in Michigan at least, that by holding a driver's license one has implied consent to sobriety testing.

Don't like it? Don't drive on the public-funded roads, then - drive only on Libertarian Highways.

106 posted on 05/08/2003 6:16:24 AM PDT by Chemist_Geek ("Drill, R&D, and conserve" should be our watchwords! Energy independence for America!)
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To: Mr. Silverback
I just recently had a conversation about Constitutional law with a Milwaukee Police Officer with car stops and the Fourth Amendment. And basically what it came down to was him saying “The constitution doesn’t apply to you when I’m on the job – period!” “I don’t care if you think Im a Jack booted Nazi because I am”

(Ill leave the name of this officer withheld – lets just call him Josh)

I couldn’t really believe it but I can understand how these officers get on there power trips with the things they see and deal with. The simple fact is they take an Oath on the Constitution of America to uphold….I believe when they get sworn in.

Im glad I left that town
107 posted on 05/08/2003 6:39:48 AM PDT by ezo4
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To: BraveMan
Too bad you can't listen to a police scanner here. I suspect you wouldn't be quite as concerned about some individuals' 2nd Amendment rights . . .

"We can't be so concerned with individual Rights..."
-Bill Clinton

No. Sorry. If you had your full 2A Rights, you wouldn't have those concerns. Or is a "BraveMan" not "brave" enough to defend himself and those around him by carrying the necessary tools to do so?

108 posted on 05/08/2003 7:01:51 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (For an Evil Super Genius, you aren't too bright are you?)
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To: Chemist_Geek
So, you believe that incarcerated prisoners ought to have arms?

You liberals never get tired of using the same vapid arguments over and over again do you. The only way to deny someone their Rights is through Due processs and incarceration. The denial of your Rights is a punishment for a crime committed. Once that debt is paid though, Rights should be restored. If a person is that much of a repeat danger to the public, then they either should not be let out, or the Death Penalty should be considered. Period. End of story.

You believe that persons who have proven their inability to live peacefully in civil society shouldn't be punished for attempting to gain an advantage over ther potential next victim fellow Free Citizens?

If everyone is armed, potential criminals have a LOT more worries about their safety while committing said crime. If they are repeat offenders who have somehow survived their confrontations with armed victims, why are we letting them out of prison?

None of which supports the contention that we should all be considered guilty until proven innocent on the issue of carrying weapons.

109 posted on 05/08/2003 7:07:24 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (For an Evil Super Genius, you aren't too bright are you?)
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To: SJSAMPLE
Right on!
If the LEO ask's for consent then he is admitting he has no cause. If you refuse to consent to be searched and are searched any way then this is a bad search. You may end up in jail any way it turns out.
110 posted on 05/08/2003 7:22:24 AM PDT by Stand_Up
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Comment #111 Removed by Moderator

Comment #112 Removed by Moderator

To: flashbunny
This isn't an invasion of privacy. It's a consent search. They ask you if they can search your vehicle. If you consent, they search, hence the name. If you don't, they don't, and you go on your way unless they have a legal reason to detain you.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Have you ever done a cop ride along?? Apparently you have not.

True story. I did a ride along last year. One of the patrol officers stopped a vehicle and we responded as backup. The kids were found to be not drinking. The stopping Officer finished the stop ask the kids to stay. The first rule of a stop is not answer any questions, also to continually ask, am i under arrest and am I free to go.

Well anyway the stopping officer came back to our vehicle and said they are clean, but I rememeber a series of BE that occurred and I want to question them more so I am going to question and ask for a consent search. He walked away ten paces stopped turned around and came to our window nad said turn on the bubble gum lights I want to shake them and returned to thestopped vehicle.

Ten minutes it took to gain the authorization, ( I do not know what was said) and I see the 3 kids (18-21) getting out of the car. The officer patted them all down, hands on the vehicle. He enters the car, digging under the seats, etc. He finds what he said was smoked marayanna butt.

Of course the driver is arrested, put in jail and now has a record. There is absolutely no evidence this kid smoked it could have been anyone, or been their when thekid purchased the car, who knows.

Now if you recall the reason for the consent search was to verify connections to a series of BE.

All this kid had to say was NOPE, am I under arrest and am I free to go. The entire stop took 25-30 minutes. Any attorney knows that 10 minutes is considered the average. In fact the officer I was riding with said did I know that if I consent to a vehicle search, I can tell them they can't look in the glove box, or the center consule.


This is entrappment at its finest, Hitler, Iragi, and name and how many other countries have done privicy searches.

Most people do not know that police can lie to gain your cooperation and confession.

NEVER NEVER NEVER give permission, ALWAY ask if you are free to go.

In fact posted to the back of my license I have these points and several others. Basically it says give me my dam ticket and zip the lip routine.

So to your issue this isn't an "invasion of privacy" is Bull$hit. 40 hours of training is about the law, but 20 hours is lines to use to gain consent that are within the law.

I have no license plate front either.




NEVER NEVER NEVER consent to a search. Make them arrest you.






113 posted on 05/08/2003 8:19:00 AM PDT by CHICAGOFARMER (Citizen Carry)
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To: Smokin' Joe
You got it!
If you say "No." to a consensual search, then you must have something to hide, right?

Which means that they now have probable cause to search your vehicle.

Tell us, sir, have you quit beating your wife yet? Yes or No


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


The answer is Absolutely, or four rabbits, or no question. Give them stupid answers.
114 posted on 05/08/2003 8:20:32 AM PDT by CHICAGOFARMER (Citizen Carry)
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To: ninenot
But the "consent searches" will only take place in two geographic areas which, ah, 'have a great deal of gun violence.' Read between the lines.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

The pattern starts, then expands, and then we lose more rights.

115 posted on 05/08/2003 8:21:33 AM PDT by CHICAGOFARMER (Citizen Carry)
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To: BraveMan
Look, some folks just are happier as slaves, if it increases their feeling of security.

But that's you, not me.

"BraveMan" indeed. More like "CringingSlave".

116 posted on 05/08/2003 9:43:57 AM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Chemist_Geek
So, you believe that incarcerated prisoners ought to have arms?

Asinine.

You believe that persons who have proven their inability to live peacefully in civil society shouldn't be punished for attempting to gain an advantage over ther potential next victim fellow Free Citizens? If they have proven they can't live peacefully in civil society, they should be kept in jail.

117 posted on 05/08/2003 9:47:28 AM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Dead Corpse
Oh, I get it; carrying around a weapon automatically makes one "brave". Just like the gangbangers, huh.

If you had your full 2A Rights, you wouldn't have those concerns.

If wishes were horses, beggars would ride. The "jackbooted thugs" as you are wont to call them aren't violating anybodys' rights, 2nd Amendment or otherwise. They are going into high crime areas using shifty yet legal tactics to attempt to pull weapons out of the hands of fools, criminals and gangster wanabes. Question my bravery for thinking that isn't such a bad idea . . .

Or is a "BraveMan" not "brave" enough to defend himself . . .

Perhaps you should pose the same question to the parents of children no longer with us because they were caught in the crossfire at the playground.

Tough Guy. Pfffft . . .

118 posted on 05/08/2003 10:26:43 AM PDT by BraveMan
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To: Travis McGee
It sure is good seeing more and more who really "get it", you are 100% correct. Commit a crime go to jail, release means ALL rights restored. Capital crimes, death or life in prison.
No parole for capital crimes.
Thanks,
Jack
119 posted on 05/08/2003 10:29:23 AM PDT by btcusn
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To: Travis McGee
You know, Travis, I have a lot of respect for you; I really do. I just think you have the wrong idea about Sherrif Clarke on this one . . .

This man is trying, within the system as we now know it, to effect a positive outcome on a violent crime rate of epidemic proportions in a poor, predominantly black neighborhood. This man is stepping up to the plate. Others before him have not. I applaud him for trying to effect change where change is needed. If that makes me "CringingSlave" in your eyes, oh well; not much I can do about that . . .

I don't see this issue as a serious breach of 2nd Amendment rights, as you apparently do. Shifty, yes. A little underhanded, yes. Illegal, no.
120 posted on 05/08/2003 10:41:39 AM PDT by BraveMan
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