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"Unlike the American troops, we look the Iraqis in the eye"
The Daily Telegraph U.K. ^ | 4-05-03 | Not attributed

Posted on 05/04/2003 3:04:58 PM PDT by WaterDragon

He counts his unit's kills meticulously, each one a tick in black pen on his khaki helmet which is, by now, bleached by the sun and battered from battle. Perched in the turret of his tank, just behind the barrel that is hand-painted with intimidating war cries such as "kill 'em all" or "I'm a motherf***ing warrior", he talks only to those Iraqis with the temerity to approach: he feels vulnerable without a 60-ton Abrams girding his loins. It is impossible to read anything in his eyes because they are always obscured by mirrored sunglasses.

Only in the safety of his unit's headquarters, behind barbed wire and protected by heavy weaponry, does the American marine take off his body armour and helmet. On the streets of Baghdad, out on patrol, he is wary and ill at ease.

Friendly approach: an Irish Guard patrols the streets of Basra Every Iraqi is a potential troublemaker, a possible target. If one fails to stop at his checkpoint, his response will be to open fire. If more than 50 gather to chant anti-American slogans, he will likely flood the street with soldiers. If he so much as suspects that the crowd has weapons he may well consider a full-scale counter-attack.

Still in full battle dress, though the war is over, he is awesome to behold. His President insists that he was never a member of an invading force, that he was a liberator and is now a peacekeeper. Yet much of the time he is loathed, despised and spat upon by those Iraqis for whose freedom he fought. He and his comrades are among the most hated men in the Iraqi capital.

The manner in which the American forces stormed their way to Baghdad may indeed have been awesome. They fought the war with verve, with valour and with steely determination. How they are holding the peace, however, makes a woeful contrast.

British troops, by comparison, are welcomed in southern Iraq with cries of "We love you Britannia, welcome British." In the south, the British not only won the trust of the locals during the war and used it effectively to gather vital intelligence, they kept it in the aftermath. The Americans, hampered by much stricter rules of engagement and with little experience of peacekeeping, are swiftly losing the battle for hearts and minds.

On the streets of Basra, Safwan and Az Zubayr in southern Iraq, British soldiers, with years of experience of dealing with civilian populations in war zones such as Northern Ireland and of peacekeeping in the Balkans and Sierra Leone, are treated as saviours. They have abandoned their helmets in favour of their more people-friendly berets, have taken off their body armour and mingle with the locals. They have helped to set up a local police force and a council to get the city's infrastructure running smoothly.

"Have you met my buddy Ahmed?" says Sergeant Euan Andrews, from the 7th Parachute Regiment of the Royal Horse Artillery, as he swings an arm around an Iraqi by his side outside the freshly painted Basra police station.

Ahmed, beaming in a baseball cap emblazoned with the words "City of Basra police" in Arabic and holding a truncheon, punches his new friend in playful camaraderie. "A month ago we were shooting at each other," says Euan, "now we are on the same side."

As Ahmed, chest swelling with pride, steps out to deal with the next car check by himself, Euan gives him an encouraging nod. "They're all getting there," he says. "It will take time. There is still a lot of: 'He is my cousin, my friend, he is ok.' We have had to explain that police must be impartial. But slowly we are getting there."

That afternoon the soldiers are playing football against the locals and in the evening they have volunteered to repaint the local school. The Iraqis loiter to chat as they pass the station, shaking soldiers by the hand and bringing them home-cooked meals. "Our methods of dealing with the locals are very, very different from that of the Yanks," one officer says over a cup of local coffee. ("Awful," he says, "but they like it when we drink it.")

"Unlike the Americans we have taken off our helmets and sunglasses and we look the locals in the eye. If we see one vehicle heading at speed towards a checkpoint we let it through. It is only one vehicle. We call our method "raid and aid" - don't ask me what we call the American way."

In Basra, raid and aid worked. For two weeks the 7th Armoured Brigade waited at the bridge before entering the city. During that time it built up its relationship with those Iraqis brave enough to provide intelligence about the Fedayeen - Saddam's loyalist fighters - who had held the city to ransom.

The result was that when the British did enter, they knew where to go, who to go after and who to trust. For them the rules of engagement changed as warfare became peacekeeping. Now, they no longer automatically return fire. They wait. Often Iraqi gunfire is a sign of celebration at the return of electricity or running water. They know it is not necessarily attacking fire.

The Americans are, admittedly, bound by much less flexible rules. Their Force Protection Doctrine decrees that all soldiers must wear helmets and body armour in a war zone at all times and that gun fire must be met with response. They also have little experience in the peacekeeping arena, and their experience of urban warfare in the battle for Hue during the Vietnam war and more recently in Somalia has left them jumpy.

The British have learned in the past 30 years that good information on the enemy was their best protection and that putting soldiers at risk to get it was justified; jungle ambushes in Vietnam made the Americans obsessed with "force protection".

Since the killing of four American soldiers by an Iraqi suicide bomber 10 days into the conflict, they have become even more wary of locals.

Last week, Americans killed 15 people - among them two young boys - at Fallujah, an impoverished Shia area 30 miles west of Baghdad - when locals became angry at their occupation of the local school. Though the US troops say they fired in self-defence - and may well have done so - television footage of bleeding Iraqis, clearly unarmed, lying on the roads, have shocked Western viewers.

In Baghdad, where the Americans rarely leave their compounds, lawlessness is widespread. On Friday, when locals realised that Saddam's sister owned a lavish home in Al Jadria in the west of the city, they stormed the house. Pianos, furniture and paintings were dragged away by a mob of looters. When US soldiers arrived they stopped only long enough to warn journalists not to remove anything or they would be arrested, then left the mob rampaging through the house. "I'm not going near that lot," one marine said. "I don't feel safe anywhere near them, unless I am behind a whopping big tank."

In the more affluent areas of Al Mansour and Al Kaarada, local families have been forced to build barricades to keep out thieves as the American soldiers refuse to patrol.

In the Shia ghettos of Saddam City and Khadamia, where the Americans are reluctant to go even in tanks, the local imams have taken matters in hand. "Imams have set up local security stations in the hospitals," says Yousef al Alwani. "Guns that have been looted, many from Saddam's palace, are brought to the mosques and from there the imams take them to the hospital and arm the local militia who are now policing us. The Americans don't protect us and they don't help us. What else are they doing but occupying us?"

Cultural background, say military analysts, explains much of the British success in southern Iraq. "Britain and other European nations have imperial traditions," says Stuart Crawford, a retired lieutenant colonel in the 4th Royal Tank Regiment. "As a result, British troops have been inculcated with the ethos and tradition of colonial policing, where small numbers of men would have close contact on a daily basis with local populations. But America is a young country with no colonial past."

In some respects it is a paradox that Britain, which once ruled an empire, should have a more flexible and sensitive army than America.

At the end of the 19th century, the howitzer and the Maxim gun were the equivalent of the cruise missile and the tankbuster. To maintain control yet allow and encourage people to live in their traditional ways, they became accustomed to understanding and respecting local culture and customs. It is a lesson that the American army has yet, it seems, to learn.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; United Kingdom; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: allies; american; antiamerican; boorishness; british; drivel; iraqifreedom; mediabias; order; totalbs; troops
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To: All
Sorry about the lack of paragraphing. I am dumbfounded that the British defend a so-called conservative British newspaper that insults American soldiers.

I want to know if ANY British posters at FR have written to the Telegraph to object to the trashy articles about American troops.
381 posted on 05/05/2003 9:50:53 AM PDT by WaterDragon (Only America has the moral authority and the resolve to lead the world in the 21st Century.)
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To: Charles Martel
You'd be justifiably angry if a similar screed disparaging U.K. troops were printed in a U.S. newspaper, correct?

I have been at FR for nearly 5 years. The sheer number of times, and the sheer number of posters that have been disparaging and dismissive towards Britain is beyond counting. I haven't mentioned it until now - because right now, after the bravery and sacrifice of the troops and their commanders this is truly, totally inappropriate to use this article as an excuse to insult the lads.

Ivan

382 posted on 05/05/2003 10:11:56 AM PDT by MadIvan
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To: WaterDragon
I want to know if ANY British posters at FR have written to the Telegraph to object to the trashy articles about American troops.

How many times have you stood up for British posters when they were trashed by your colleagues on here?

Ivan

383 posted on 05/05/2003 10:12:40 AM PDT by MadIvan
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To: stinkypew
The Russians did most of the Hitler-whippin. Not us. And in my opinion the Brits did at least as much as we did. Probably more.

It was the Russians who allowed Hitler to start the war in the first place, when the jointly agreed to take over Poland.

384 posted on 05/05/2003 10:16:41 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Pukka Puck
You whiney crybaby. It was the story in your beloved Daily Telegraph that insulted our country, our troops, and our commanders. You defend that paper.

What part of "I disagree with the article" did you not read? Why is it that a paper has to produce 100% great articles all the time before you are willing to accept it?

You've only managed to cite 2 articles of editions ranging from February to May, that have say anything near disparaging to American troops.

What I object to, is the following train of thought:

  1. 2 articles appear in the Telegraph that are less praising of American troops than you would like.
  2. Therefore the Telegraph is not conservative and all bad.
  3. Anyone who defends the Telegraph because its overall record is good should be attacked
  4. In fact, because the Telegraph is British, we should attack the performance of the British troops and commanders.

I call you on this, and your response, arrogantly, is that somehow you are the authority that gets to make this sort of judgement. My response is, that's nonsense, and if it is a general opinion shared on this board, then I see little reason to linger here - because anti-British bigotry will have overriden good sense.

Ivan

385 posted on 05/05/2003 10:17:56 AM PDT by MadIvan
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To: MadIvan
Totally agree. Without Britain's and Tony Blair's support, it would have been MUCH more difficult to hold off the Bush-bashers and critics. The fact that we had an ally in Britain in this action is of incalcuable value.
386 posted on 05/05/2003 10:19:42 AM PDT by Cordova Belle ("America is great because she is good. When America ceases to be good, she will cease to be great.")
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To: EaglesUpForever
Hopefully you've been on FR long enough to realize that a thick skin is something of a requirement to stay on here.

I've been here for nearly 5 years. I've heard all sorts of terrible things said about my country (and yes, about me). Yes, I've got a thick skin. It is inappropriate to the extreme to use this article to bash the lads and their officers, given their bravery, and the fact that a good number returned home in boxes. If an American patriot was on a British board, and our roles reversed, I doubt he would be lingering either if that fundamental element of decency and respect was not forthcoming.

Regards, Ivan

387 posted on 05/05/2003 10:22:00 AM PDT by MadIvan
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To: MadIvan
Ivan, I believe the views that have been offensive to you--and rightly so--represent a minority of posters on FR.

No one in their right mind would disparage with the Brits did in Iraq.

No one.
388 posted on 05/05/2003 10:25:48 AM PDT by Cordova Belle ("America is great because she is good. When America ceases to be good, she will cease to be great.")
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To: Pukka Puck
I disagree. A gentleman does not accuse others of being liars for no legitimate reason

You lied about what my countrymen were doing in Basra. I've posted articles proving to you that they were truly engaged, not "pussyfooting" as you would have it. To persist in this untruth, when you know better, is to lie. End of discussion.

Only a spoiled five year old would threaten to take his marbles and go home and sulk in a corner when presented with opinions contrary to his own.

I could point out your ungentlemanly behaviour, however, I have been requested not to air such dirty laundry in public. I am sure you know of what I speak.

If it's just you who is behaving like a jackass, then of course I'm not going anywhere. You behaving like a jackass is expected. If the entire board shares your opinion, which is what I said, then that's another matter entirely.

Ivan

389 posted on 05/05/2003 10:26:36 AM PDT by MadIvan
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To: MadIvan
Well, I think you just have to look at whether that fundamental element of decency and respect is forthcoming from whom. Because on any public forum like this, there will be at least some percentage that will just spew forth emotional junk.

Anyway, for my part, I apologize if you took offense at anything I said, and I have the deepest appreciation for your great country and respect the fact that as GW said, we have no truer friend.

I can't think of a Freeper that has contributed more than you, either.

390 posted on 05/05/2003 10:28:34 AM PDT by EaglesUpForever (Boycott france and russia for at least 20 years)
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To: WaterDragon
It's not often I fell justified in verbalizing thoughts exactly this way, but...

This is a bunch of crap!

Unless suddenly the GB forces are restricted to IQs uner 50.

391 posted on 05/05/2003 10:40:37 AM PDT by Publius6961 (Californians are as dumm as a sack of rocks)
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To: MadIvan
Charles_Martel: You'd be justifiably angry if a similar screed disparaging U.K. troops were printed in a U.S. newspaper, correct?

MadIvan: zI have been at FR for nearly 5 years. The sheer number of times, and the sheer number of posters that have been disparaging and dismissive towards Britain is beyond counting.

There's disconnect here. Charles_Martell remarked about newspapers. MadIvan, you respond with a remark about FR posters. What gives here?

392 posted on 05/05/2003 10:47:54 AM PDT by WaterDragon (Only America has the moral authority and the resolve to lead the world in the 21st Century.)
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To: piasa
It was this kind of tactical derring-do that caused the fabled RedCoats to be slaughtered as they marched in open battle formation by New World farmers.

"Mad dogs and Englishmen".........
393 posted on 05/05/2003 10:48:30 AM PDT by tracer (/b>)
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To: MadIvan
WaterDragon: I want to know if ANY British posters at FR have written to the Telegraph to object to the trashy articles about American troops

MadIvan: How many times have you stood up for British posters when they were trashed by your colleagues on here? Again, my comment was about whether Brits write the Telegraph to object to its insulting articles about American troops. You respond with a comment about posters comments at the FR forum. There's still a disconnect. For the record, I've defended British posters many times. Actually, not that many, because I've seen few American FR posters insulting British FR posters.

394 posted on 05/05/2003 10:53:29 AM PDT by WaterDragon (Only America has the moral authority and the resolve to lead the world in the 21st Century.)
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To: MadIvan; WaterDragon; may18; AndrewC; Thumper1960
I did not lie about what the British did around Basra. You lie when you claim I lied.

Whether one characterizes what the British did while outside of Basra as pussyfooting, diddling about, prudent raiding, or sitting on their ass, is a mere matter of semantics and opinion, not a lie.

The fact is that for two weeks while outside of Basra, the British did very little fighting. Even your posts, purportedly meant to prove that the British were not merely screwing around on the outskirts of Basra only mentioned things like raids on the suburbs.

I never said that British troops were incapable of a more vigorous and aggressive attack on Basra, only that what they actually did was very tentative and timid.

I think that the reason the British action was so timid and slow around Basra was because both American and British commanders did not want British troops to do much fighting.

The reason both American and British commanders did not want the British troops to do much fighting around Basra was because the vast majority of the British public was against British participation in the war.

Had the British troops done more fighting, they would have had higher casualties. While may18 has posted a link showing that over time, public opinion swung more in favor of the war, had the British troops taken higher casualties, that public opinion may very well have swung even further against the war and had the effect of causing Tony Blair to lose his job. That would have been a disaster for Bush and America and our war effort.

Therefore, it is perfectly understandable why Coalition Commanders decided to have the British pussyfoot around outside of Basra for two weeks while the Americans did the heavy lifting. Afterall, the American public was solidly behind Bush and Bush would rise or fall based on how the war ended up, so his die was cast.

The fact that everyone with any sense of honestly and understanding of what happened in the war, that the British were very slow to engage and that American troops did the vast bulk of the heavy fighting, is no slur on the quality or fighting spirit of the British troops nor is it a slam against the British commanders. I think that both the British troops and the British Commanders did every thing that they were asked to do and they did it very well.

Now you can bluster and call me names and pretend that what I am saying is some great insult to the British, but you would be a liar if you were to persist in such nonsense.
395 posted on 05/05/2003 10:56:00 AM PDT by Pukka Puck
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To: MadIvan
"If the entire board shares your opinion, which is what I said, then that's another matter entirely."

Well, as long as you are on the board, the entire board will not share my opinion, so we are safe that you will stick around.
396 posted on 05/05/2003 10:57:26 AM PDT by Pukka Puck
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To: MadIvan
This doesn't sound like you Ivan.
Looks like you've succumbed to the agenda of the post.

I could only have been created to divide.
I can smell and recognize crap when I see it.
Take a break; chill.

This article hasn't changed my estimation of American and Brit troops one iota.
Or of the british people no matter what the media say.

397 posted on 05/05/2003 10:57:43 AM PDT by Publius6961 (Californians are as dumm as a sack of rocks)
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To: WaterDragon; MadIvan
"There's disconnect here. Charles_Martell remarked about newspapers. MadIvan, you respond with a remark about FR posters. What gives here?"

I think it is called a lack of intellectual honesty and changing the topic.
398 posted on 05/05/2003 10:59:41 AM PDT by Pukka Puck
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To: Publius6961
"This is a bunch of crap!"

Quite right! The Telegraph is printing crap about American troops.
399 posted on 05/05/2003 11:01:42 AM PDT by Pukka Puck
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To: MadIvan
Pukka_Puck: You whiney crybaby. It was the story in your beloved Daily Telegraph that insulted our country, our troops, and our commanders. You defend that paper.

MadIvan: What part of "I disagree with the article" did you not read? Why is it that a paper has to produce 100% great articles all the time before you are willing to accept it? You've only managed to cite 2 articles of editions ranging from February to May, that have say anything near disparaging to American troops.

Ivan, ONLY two articles in the Telegraph basically calling American troops stupid monkeys? The Washington Post, for example, knows that if it published such garbage about British troops even ONCE it would have its head handed to it right in the FR forum, and be deluged with outraged mail.

As for you "disagreeing" with the articles, YOU posted one of them and was outraged that Americans objected to it as insulting.

MadIvan: ...because the Telegraph is British, we should attack the performance of the British troops and commanders.

A couple of American posters have been stung by the article and your defense of the Telegraph to make comments about how the British commanders handled Basra. Otherwise, posters have tried desperately to keep the focus on the astounding Telegraph's printing insults to American troops.

400 posted on 05/05/2003 11:06:34 AM PDT by WaterDragon (Only America has the moral authority and the resolve to lead the world in the 21st Century.)
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