Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

"Unlike the American troops, we look the Iraqis in the eye"
The Daily Telegraph U.K. ^ | 4-05-03 | Not attributed

Posted on 05/04/2003 3:04:58 PM PDT by WaterDragon

He counts his unit's kills meticulously, each one a tick in black pen on his khaki helmet which is, by now, bleached by the sun and battered from battle. Perched in the turret of his tank, just behind the barrel that is hand-painted with intimidating war cries such as "kill 'em all" or "I'm a motherf***ing warrior", he talks only to those Iraqis with the temerity to approach: he feels vulnerable without a 60-ton Abrams girding his loins. It is impossible to read anything in his eyes because they are always obscured by mirrored sunglasses.

Only in the safety of his unit's headquarters, behind barbed wire and protected by heavy weaponry, does the American marine take off his body armour and helmet. On the streets of Baghdad, out on patrol, he is wary and ill at ease.

Friendly approach: an Irish Guard patrols the streets of Basra Every Iraqi is a potential troublemaker, a possible target. If one fails to stop at his checkpoint, his response will be to open fire. If more than 50 gather to chant anti-American slogans, he will likely flood the street with soldiers. If he so much as suspects that the crowd has weapons he may well consider a full-scale counter-attack.

Still in full battle dress, though the war is over, he is awesome to behold. His President insists that he was never a member of an invading force, that he was a liberator and is now a peacekeeper. Yet much of the time he is loathed, despised and spat upon by those Iraqis for whose freedom he fought. He and his comrades are among the most hated men in the Iraqi capital.

The manner in which the American forces stormed their way to Baghdad may indeed have been awesome. They fought the war with verve, with valour and with steely determination. How they are holding the peace, however, makes a woeful contrast.

British troops, by comparison, are welcomed in southern Iraq with cries of "We love you Britannia, welcome British." In the south, the British not only won the trust of the locals during the war and used it effectively to gather vital intelligence, they kept it in the aftermath. The Americans, hampered by much stricter rules of engagement and with little experience of peacekeeping, are swiftly losing the battle for hearts and minds.

On the streets of Basra, Safwan and Az Zubayr in southern Iraq, British soldiers, with years of experience of dealing with civilian populations in war zones such as Northern Ireland and of peacekeeping in the Balkans and Sierra Leone, are treated as saviours. They have abandoned their helmets in favour of their more people-friendly berets, have taken off their body armour and mingle with the locals. They have helped to set up a local police force and a council to get the city's infrastructure running smoothly.

"Have you met my buddy Ahmed?" says Sergeant Euan Andrews, from the 7th Parachute Regiment of the Royal Horse Artillery, as he swings an arm around an Iraqi by his side outside the freshly painted Basra police station.

Ahmed, beaming in a baseball cap emblazoned with the words "City of Basra police" in Arabic and holding a truncheon, punches his new friend in playful camaraderie. "A month ago we were shooting at each other," says Euan, "now we are on the same side."

As Ahmed, chest swelling with pride, steps out to deal with the next car check by himself, Euan gives him an encouraging nod. "They're all getting there," he says. "It will take time. There is still a lot of: 'He is my cousin, my friend, he is ok.' We have had to explain that police must be impartial. But slowly we are getting there."

That afternoon the soldiers are playing football against the locals and in the evening they have volunteered to repaint the local school. The Iraqis loiter to chat as they pass the station, shaking soldiers by the hand and bringing them home-cooked meals. "Our methods of dealing with the locals are very, very different from that of the Yanks," one officer says over a cup of local coffee. ("Awful," he says, "but they like it when we drink it.")

"Unlike the Americans we have taken off our helmets and sunglasses and we look the locals in the eye. If we see one vehicle heading at speed towards a checkpoint we let it through. It is only one vehicle. We call our method "raid and aid" - don't ask me what we call the American way."

In Basra, raid and aid worked. For two weeks the 7th Armoured Brigade waited at the bridge before entering the city. During that time it built up its relationship with those Iraqis brave enough to provide intelligence about the Fedayeen - Saddam's loyalist fighters - who had held the city to ransom.

The result was that when the British did enter, they knew where to go, who to go after and who to trust. For them the rules of engagement changed as warfare became peacekeeping. Now, they no longer automatically return fire. They wait. Often Iraqi gunfire is a sign of celebration at the return of electricity or running water. They know it is not necessarily attacking fire.

The Americans are, admittedly, bound by much less flexible rules. Their Force Protection Doctrine decrees that all soldiers must wear helmets and body armour in a war zone at all times and that gun fire must be met with response. They also have little experience in the peacekeeping arena, and their experience of urban warfare in the battle for Hue during the Vietnam war and more recently in Somalia has left them jumpy.

The British have learned in the past 30 years that good information on the enemy was their best protection and that putting soldiers at risk to get it was justified; jungle ambushes in Vietnam made the Americans obsessed with "force protection".

Since the killing of four American soldiers by an Iraqi suicide bomber 10 days into the conflict, they have become even more wary of locals.

Last week, Americans killed 15 people - among them two young boys - at Fallujah, an impoverished Shia area 30 miles west of Baghdad - when locals became angry at their occupation of the local school. Though the US troops say they fired in self-defence - and may well have done so - television footage of bleeding Iraqis, clearly unarmed, lying on the roads, have shocked Western viewers.

In Baghdad, where the Americans rarely leave their compounds, lawlessness is widespread. On Friday, when locals realised that Saddam's sister owned a lavish home in Al Jadria in the west of the city, they stormed the house. Pianos, furniture and paintings were dragged away by a mob of looters. When US soldiers arrived they stopped only long enough to warn journalists not to remove anything or they would be arrested, then left the mob rampaging through the house. "I'm not going near that lot," one marine said. "I don't feel safe anywhere near them, unless I am behind a whopping big tank."

In the more affluent areas of Al Mansour and Al Kaarada, local families have been forced to build barricades to keep out thieves as the American soldiers refuse to patrol.

In the Shia ghettos of Saddam City and Khadamia, where the Americans are reluctant to go even in tanks, the local imams have taken matters in hand. "Imams have set up local security stations in the hospitals," says Yousef al Alwani. "Guns that have been looted, many from Saddam's palace, are brought to the mosques and from there the imams take them to the hospital and arm the local militia who are now policing us. The Americans don't protect us and they don't help us. What else are they doing but occupying us?"

Cultural background, say military analysts, explains much of the British success in southern Iraq. "Britain and other European nations have imperial traditions," says Stuart Crawford, a retired lieutenant colonel in the 4th Royal Tank Regiment. "As a result, British troops have been inculcated with the ethos and tradition of colonial policing, where small numbers of men would have close contact on a daily basis with local populations. But America is a young country with no colonial past."

In some respects it is a paradox that Britain, which once ruled an empire, should have a more flexible and sensitive army than America.

At the end of the 19th century, the howitzer and the Maxim gun were the equivalent of the cruise missile and the tankbuster. To maintain control yet allow and encourage people to live in their traditional ways, they became accustomed to understanding and respecting local culture and customs. It is a lesson that the American army has yet, it seems, to learn.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; United Kingdom; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: allies; american; antiamerican; boorishness; british; drivel; iraqifreedom; mediabias; order; totalbs; troops
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 341-360361-380381-400 ... 521-523 next last
To: may18; MadIvan
I don't think the British troops are inferior or that they are cowards. I do think that the fact that the majority of British voters were opposed to the war caused both American and British war planners to use the very fine British troopers very tentatively.

Don't go all Madivan on us by threatening to cancel your membership while claiming that a couple posts by a couple people represent the views of ALL the people on this forum. You are far fairer and level headed than Ivan. For goodness sake, he even acknowledges being MAD in his very handle, while I claim to be the real thing, using a British expression, no less.

Don't forget it was an article in the British press slamming American troops that started all this, not some American witch hunt against British troops.
361 posted on 05/05/2003 7:32:38 AM PDT by Pukka Puck
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 353 | View Replies]

To: MadIvan
"You insult my country, its commanders, who by all accounts have performed a brave service."

You whiney crybaby. It was the story in your beloved Daily Telegraph that insulted our country, our troops, and our commanders. You defend that paper.

I did not insult anyone, I only agreed with posters who posted facts about what happened in Iraq. If the truth hurts, too bad.
362 posted on 05/05/2003 7:36:19 AM PDT by Pukka Puck
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 350 | View Replies]

To: Pukka Puck
lol i wasnt going to post on this again.

WRT to using the forces tentatively, well in the first horrible days of the war, the royal marines where used (with usmarines under uk command) to do the awfull job of securing the first tracts of land.

anyway just to show you public opinion regarding war.
It varied greatly, the link below i by icm, a respected polster andshows how uk opinion warmed to war.

http://www.icmresearch.co.uk/reviews/2003/guardian-bombingiraq18-april-2003.htm
363 posted on 05/05/2003 7:37:55 AM PDT by may18
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 361 | View Replies]

To: AndrewC; MadIvan; WaterDragon
"people who having been shown the truest friendship possible, spit back in the face of that friendship."

You mean the sort of people who publish articles titled, "Unlike the American troops, we look the Iraqis in the eye"?

Are those the sort of slimeballs that you are sick of, Ivan?

Because the paper that published that despicable insult directed at American troops truly are spitting in the face of Britons best friend, America.
364 posted on 05/05/2003 7:42:21 AM PDT by Pukka Puck
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 356 | View Replies]

To: AndrewC
I don't think the British troops are inferior or that they are cowards. I do think that the fact that the majority of British voters were opposed to the war caused both American and British war planners to use the very fine British troopers very tentatively.
365 posted on 05/05/2003 7:44:21 AM PDT by Pukka Puck
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 356 | View Replies]

To: EaglesUpForever; MadIvan
"Journalists" can paint whatever they want. Painting is interpretive imagery. Brit soldiers wimps? Whoever would claim that is an idiot to the extreme! Operations in Iraq didn't, and don't, happen in a vacuum. CENTCOM knows full well the whys and wherefores of the Brits handlings and tactics in southern Iraq. Any and all movements and tactics used in the operation will be studied and discussed in war colleges in both countries. What the Brits did in their sphere of operations will, no doubt, serve to inhance the abilities of both our militaries.

Whoever would say disparaging words of the Brits or Yanks in their conduct of the war in Iraq is a fool.

366 posted on 05/05/2003 7:45:58 AM PDT by Thumper1960
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 357 | View Replies]

To: tictoc; MadIvan
"You are a fine gentleman and a scholar."

I disagree. A gentleman does not accuse others of being liars for no legitimate reason. Only a spoiled five year old would threaten to take his marbles and go home and sulk in a corner when presented with opinions contrary to his own.
367 posted on 05/05/2003 7:47:26 AM PDT by Pukka Puck
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 360 | View Replies]

To: may18
Thank you for your post and your link.

I appreciate your considered responses.
368 posted on 05/05/2003 7:48:59 AM PDT by Pukka Puck
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 363 | View Replies]

To: WaterDragon
Falklands anybody?
369 posted on 05/05/2003 7:49:06 AM PDT by JETDRVR
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pukka Puck
let me give you an example of using different tactics on different objectives, this time with us troops

in uhm qasir the job of taking the small old town was given to US marines.

They fought there for 5 days, when they moved out most of the resistance was quelled but house to house was not completed, royal moved in to continue securing the area and had secured it in a day and a night.

Now when i look at this incident do i say

"ooh look 5 days and they couldnt take a tiny town" ?

no of course i dont. I say

"US marines did a huge part of the work, under centcom command, before moving on to another objective.They foughtbravely in nasty urban conditions. Royal were no doubt grateful that so much resistance was eradicated."

See how easy it is too pick out incidents in the conflict and misconstrue them?.
370 posted on 05/05/2003 7:50:45 AM PDT by may18
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 365 | View Replies]

To: JETDRVR
The falklands was fought by infantry.

Few facts regarding it

The US advised us it was impossibl with our forces available.

During almost every infantry battle the uk forces were outnumbered 3 or 4 to 1, even against positions dug in, with limited support, the 20 harriers available were unable to provide air suport, the fleet needed protection.

During the initial fight 700 paras took 1500 pows, using small arms fire and bayonet. When the attack faltered the colonel charged a machine gun nest, he subdued the nest, sadly he died while charging a second nest.

Seeing their commander charge the men of 2nd para also charged with bayonet fixed.

When the warsaw pact saw the performance of british infantry they strengthened their forces in europe

And finally the uk greatly appreciated the help given to he uk by the US. Reagan backed the uk, imposed sanctions on argentina. And offered us a super carrier, i can only assume it was through pride that we refused
371 posted on 05/05/2003 7:56:00 AM PDT by may18
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 369 | View Replies]

To: may18
What?

No Lady Maggie Thatcher pic???

372 posted on 05/05/2003 8:02:45 AM PDT by Thumper1960
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 371 | View Replies]

To: Thumper1960
lol just for you ;p

http://mt.sopris.net/mpc/military/v/thatcher.reagan.jpg

http://www.reagan.dk/pics/withthatcher87.gif

http://www.reagan2000.com/gallimages/1990ReaganwithThatcher.jpg
373 posted on 05/05/2003 8:10:25 AM PDT by may18
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 372 | View Replies]

To: may18
Geez!

Thanks!!!

The "Iron Lady" and the "Gipper". What a team!!!!

374 posted on 05/05/2003 8:28:33 AM PDT by Thumper1960
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 373 | View Replies]

To: Thumper1960

"It's essential for the free world
that MadIvan stays on FR..."
375 posted on 05/05/2003 8:32:39 AM PDT by EaglesUpForever (Boycott france and russia for at least 20 years)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 372 | View Replies]

To: MadIvan
I'm sick to death of listening to this nonsense.

You insult my country, its commanders, who by all accounts have performed a brave service.

Hang on there, mate. That was a Telegraph article which insulted America and its men in the field, who by all accounts have performed a brave service, too. That sort of thing is guaranteed to raise some hackles, but there's no need to sour a fine relationship over something that a "reporter" scrawled with a wax crayon.

Our nations are more similar than different - and sadly, the same may be said for U.S. and U.K. media. Good people on both sides of the Atlantic should be offended by that Telegraph article. You'd be justifiably angry if a similar screed disparaging U.K. troops were printed in a U.S. newspaper, correct?

Mass media: the enemy within.

376 posted on 05/05/2003 8:33:54 AM PDT by Charles Martel
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 350 | View Replies]

To: may18
Another fine post by you, may18.

Thank you for your excellent example. I have no problem with the British troops. It is the way the Telegraph spins their story that has me steamed.

The very title of the article is slur and a slap in the face.
377 posted on 05/05/2003 8:59:44 AM PDT by Pukka Puck
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 370 | View Replies]

To: Pukka Puck
The British sense of superiority over the American military is as old as America. For example, during WW II, the British referred to the Americans as "our Italians". Old habits die hard.

Besides, it must be acknowledged that, man for man, the British army is the best in the world. That is no slur on the American military, rather, our reliance on technology and firepower has always been far greater than that of our English allies.

378 posted on 05/05/2003 9:11:03 AM PDT by Seydlitz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 377 | View Replies]

To: Seydlitz
"Besides, it must be acknowledged that, man for man, the British army is the best in the world."

While I will not acknowledge it, neither will I dispute it.
379 posted on 05/05/2003 9:15:37 AM PDT by Pukka Puck
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 378 | View Replies]

To: All
During the fighting in Iraq, the Telegraph, the primary "conservative" newspaper in Britain, at least twice printed articles that basically said American troops are violent, arrogant gorillas and British troops are compassionate gentlemen. Another article in the Telegraph, yesterday, made fun of a couple of drunken American college kids (in an American bar) and went on to call President Bush and PM Blair liars about why this war is being fought. Americans in this forum know that if a conservative American newspaper printed articles making fun of the British troops fighting in Iraq, we conservatives in this forum would be furious. We would cry foul in this forum and deluge the newspaper with letters of outrage. In response to the snide articles in the Telegraph, British posters in this forum have defended the Telegraph and pooh-poohed the articles as nothing to worry about. In fact, MadIvan himself posted one of those articles and indicated that he thought it probably represented the truth, and why should Americans feel insulted? Which many told him they were. In other words, MadIvan did not resent his British conservative newspaper printing insults to American troops. He said we are silly to resent these insults. A couple of American posters (out of many, many) made put-down remarks about the British troops and MadIvan and others went ballistic, naturally. And then tried to insist that any resentment over the Telegraph's insults to American troops are merely attacks on British troops!!!! Well, we know that the liberal/Lefties always turn any argument on its head. They will do anything to avoid responding responsibly to the issue. Why would MadIvan defend the Telegraph's insults to American soldiers? He says the Telegraph has only done that a couple of times, so --- big deal. He even posted one of the articles himself, thinking it a fair article. The issue is not the British soldiers. They are great. American soldiers are great. But the Telegraph, which is read by all conservatives in Britain insults American soldiers and no Brit on this forum gets upset about that. MadIvan is threatening to leave FR if Americans continue to object to the Telegraph's insults to American troops. I have written the Telegraph about these insulting articles and heard absolutely nothing back from them. Beneath them to respond? It's like the hubby who only slaps his wife's teeth down her throat now and then, but otherwise brings her flowers and gifts. What on earth is she objecting to?
380 posted on 05/05/2003 9:41:23 AM PDT by WaterDragon (Only America has the moral authority and the resolve to lead the world in the 21st Century.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 368 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 341-360361-380381-400 ... 521-523 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson