Posted on 05/02/2003 10:26:29 AM PDT by Remedy
Well, we'll all just have to take your word for it then.
I can dump psuedo random (no such thing as real random) bytes into a file all day long but I'll never in billions of billions of years, be able to execute it.
If you were a real programmer, you'd know that a decent number of small-byte-count byte sequences would actually run just fine, albeit trivially, and thus you could easily randomly produce an executable program in less than a second of randomization.
Furthermore, look up "Genetic Algorithms" one of these days, Mr. Computer Programmer. They use that "baloney" evolution, and lo and behold, they work really well.
In fact, I've never even been tempted to try such a stupid concept.
Well, that's certainly one way to avoid learning.
There's no such thing as "random". There's no such thing as "chance". And there's no such things as "luck". These things only describe our uncertainty.
Einstein used to think so too, but even he admitted he was mistaken. Try learning about quantum physics before you narrow-mindedly put artificial constraints on the universe.
Everything happens in the confluence and effluence of cause and effect set in motion and sustained by the hands of Almighty God who is not defined by matter, time, cause or effect which are elements of His creation.
And you can prove this how?
...and there was much rejoicing.
What "evidence" would that be? Yes, some species do go extinct, but new ones replace them.
What "evidence" do you have that we're on some alleged downward spiral?
Furthermore, even if we were, how would that contradict evolution? There have been waves of extinctions in the past for various reasons (e.g Permian extinction, KT extinction), but evolution keeps plugging away.
The arrival of a winter doesn't prove that flowers can't grow.
If you have read my posts this evening you will see some of my reasoning for a common sensicle disbelief of evolution.
I've seen it, but I'm not sure it would rise to the level of reasoning, in the sense of logical presentation given with supporting evidence. Impressions, feelings, and personal belief, maybe.
I do not ask you to agree, only consider.
I've considered.
This is portions of an article by Lambert Dolphin a senior research physicist retired from Stanford University.
All Things "Hold Together"
One of the key words in the Colossians passage above ("...and in Christ all things hold together") is the Greek word sunistemi which means "to stand-together," "to be compacted together," "to cohere," "to be constituted with."
This passage can be applied to the structure of the atom, for example. The nucleus of every atom is held together by what physicists call "weak" and "strong" forces.
[Physicists today are familiar with four basic forces in the natural world: gravity and electrical forces, plus a "strong" and a "weak" nuclear force. The first two forces decrease in strength inversely with the square of the distance between two objects; the latter two forces act only at very short ranges.]
The nucleus of the atom contains positively charged and neutral particles-to use a simplistic model. Mutual electrostatic repulsion between the like-positive protons would drive the nucleus apart if it were not for the "strong force" which binds the nucleus together.
There is thus an active force imposed on the universe, which actively holds the very atoms of the material world together moment by moment, day by day, century by century.
Similarly, accelerated electrons circling the nucleus should quickly radiate all their energy away and fall into the nucleus unless there exists an invisible energy source to counteract this.
The third New Testament creation-related passage which talks about atomic structure and physics is found in the Apostle Peter's Second Epistle:
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise [rhoizedon, a rushing roar] and the elements [stoicheion, atoms] will be dissolved with fire and the earth and the works that are upon it will be burned up. 2 Peter 3:10 The Greek word translated "elements" in the above mentioned passage from Colossians (and in 2 Peter also) is stoicheion, which can mean "the building blocks of the universe," or "the ordered arrangement of things." It can also mean the "atomic elements." The word translated "dissolved" in 2 Peter 3:10 is literally (in Greek) luo, meaning "unloosed." This language suggests that there will come a time in the future when God lets go of the nuclear forces which hold the atom together. This passage, like the one in Colossians, strongly suggests that the active power of God is behind the mysterious strong force that holds every atomic nucleus together. If this is so, all the other fundamental forces of nature are likewise forces that originate with Christ and His sustaining direction of the old creation.
Sustaining the Universe
If God "sustains the universe by His mighty word of power," moment by moment, were He to merely relax His grasp on the universe, every atom would come apart "by fire" (that is, by nuclear fire). It is inescapable that the Bible claims that God dynamically sustains the universe, including the very atoms themselves. Atoms, it would seem, are "stable" only because force and energy are being supplied into their physical nuclear binding fields from "outside" the system.
Whatever we may think of God and physics, the Bible leaves us with no room to doubt that God does care about the sparrow that falls to the ground, the widow, the orphan, and the homeless. He does not lose track of His children and watches over them with infinite, patient, intimate Fatherly care. Not only does He sustain the universe by His mighty word of power, God also alters the status quo from time to time and, in response to prayer, frequently changes the course of entire nations. In a future day his intrusive reinterven-tion will be very radical indeed.
Another important claim of Scripture about the old creation is that God is the present Sustainer of the universe. That is, He is not uninvolved, remote, detached and impersonal-leaving things to run by themselves by any means.
Among secular scientists today there are many who acknowledge that God exists. But He is usually considered as only a First Cause-the One who brought the universe into existence and set it into motion. But most of these same scientists assume God was not involved after the initial act of creation.
This is contrary to clear statements in the Bible that God is very much involved in every event that takes place in the ongoing history of the entire universe. Causality links everything together, because God "works (Gr: energizes) all things according to the counsel of His will." (Ephesians 1:11.)
The opening verses of the Letter to the Hebrews give us another New Testament picture of God's role in the creation:
[But] in the last of these days He has spoken to us in [the person of a] Son, Whom He appointed Heir and lawful Owner of all things, also by and through Whom He created the worlds and the reaches of space and the ages of time-[that is] [He made, produced, built, operated, and arranged them in order]. He is the sole expression of the glory of God-[the Light-being, the out-raying or radiance of the divine],-and He is the perfect imprint and very image of [God's] nature, upholding and maintaining and guiding and propelling the universe by His mighty word of power..." Hebrews 1:2-3 (Amplified Bible)
A fifth great New Testament passage concerning Jesus and His place in creation is found in Revelation Chapter 1:
"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty. I John, your brother, who share with you in Jesus the tribulation and the kingdom and the patient endurance, was on the island called Patmos on account of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet... When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand upon me, saying, "Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one; I died, and behold I am alive for evermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades." Revelation 1:8-10,17-18
Here Jesus is called "the Alpha and Omega," "the First and the Last." Not only is Jesus the Son of God to be found at the beginning of history, He also stands at the end of history and at the end of every life. He is the Judge of all, and He is the heir of all things.
Just a few of the evidence for a Designer:
What? The Creator would have no use for a world view.
but with such an unimaginable level of power and technology
The Creator has no use for technology. Yes, infinite power is unimaginable to the finite being. I submit that you cannot even imagine finite power as the locked power in a handful of soil.
If the Creator exists in all His glory, He doesn't need to fit into any mold or box you can imagine. If He exists, the only thing you can know about him is that you know nothing.
To say that we can know nothing about God is to say that we can know something about Him. Your statement is, therefore, self-refuting. Not only does it refute itself but it assumes God to be aloof (another claim to know something about God) and that any knowledge about Him must be discovered by ourselves (another claim to know something about God). Have you considered the possibility that God not only can reveal Himself to us but has already done so?
1) We are not discussing an imaginary god. We are discussing the Creator.
2) Please offer your theory of how an impersonal god, who cares nothing for man or the universe, would create a universe in the first place. Then explain how an impersonal creation with impersonal natural laws could give rise to personal beings.
For someone who's allegedly been here only about 10 days, that's a pretty impressive home page you've developed. Anyway, welcome to FR (or should I say ... welcome back, whoever you were). With your belief system, I'm confident that in most places you're regarded as a flaming idiot. But here, in our evolution/creation threads, you'll find many a like-minded soul.
All so-far observed beings are subject the laws of the universe.
1) You cannot know that unless you mean "observed by you." If so, your statement is rendered useless by not only your extremely limited observation but by an inductive and subjective method which is hamstrung by your materialistic bias.
2) If you mean "observed by all mankind," you cannot rely on that either. Materialists freely admit that mankind's observations are not completely trustworthy because they tend to interpret phenomena religiously.
3) There exist records of observed beings defying the laws of the universe.
4) Your theory of evolution defies the laws of the universe.
Your hypothesis of an ultimate turtle still doesn't answer the question. How did such a being come into existence?
Again, everything that has a beginning has a cause. Therefore there must have been a First Cause which is self-existent, self-explained and uncaused. To assume that God needed a beginning is to embrace the infinite regression which (as shown in infinite set theory) is impossible. Besides, the God who has revealed Himself tells us that He is the First Cause.
Nor have you demonstrated the existence of any being not subject to the laws of the universe.
There are some of you who have said that they would not be satisfied unless God Himself appeared before them and revealed the mysteries of the universe. If that is the case, I imagine George Bush is required to come to you and justify his existence as well before you will believe he is President?
The evidence has been there all the time; the existence of something rather than nothing, the amazing order of the universe, the complex design in nature, the anthropic principle, the intelligence of man, the basic inborn knowledge of the existence of God, our sense of right and wrong, our search for meaning, our concept of good and evil and our ability to practice it. And there is more-- much more. It isn't the evidence that is lacking. The problem is the disregard and denial of the evidence.
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A FEW of the MATERIALIST'S MIRACLES |
NATURAL PROCESS THAT EXPLAINS THE MIRACLE |
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Matter has always existed/ matter is eternal. |
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Matter existed before (!) time began. Matter takes up space, space is impossible w/o time. |
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All the matter was compressed into the size of a point (some say "infinitely small"). |
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The point exploded (The universe created itself). |
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Time began. |
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The universe was 100 trillion degrees celsius (some say "infinitely high"). |
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Only quarks and photons existed which gave rise to hydrogen. |
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Hydrogen gave rise to all the other elements. |
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Some particles accelerated beyond the speed of light. (requires infinite energy) |
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The distribution of matter is not smooth but the distrubution of MBR is smooth. |
NASA just decided that the MBR is not smooth. |
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The clumping of distant quasars appears to put us in the center of the universe. |
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Particles departing from each other at the speed of light formed planets and stars |
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Rain on rocks gave rise to life (spontaneous generation) |
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Rocks gave rise to intelligence. |
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1-celled structures invented their own genetic info. |
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Frogs gave rise to princes. |
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Modern spores are found in precambrian shale. |
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Some fossil men had 12% larger brains than modern man (we are devolving?) |
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A pig's tooth evolved into a village with the help of "science." |
The blunder was admitted but not the process that led to it (Lucy & pelvic saw, for example). |
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