Georgia Flag Will Not Carry Rebel Battle Flag

CNN.com ^ | 04/25/03 | CNN

[lugsoul]

Georgia flag will not carry Dixie cross Friday, April 25, 2003 Posted: 10:30 PM EDT (0230 GMT)

ATLANTA, Georgia (AP) -- The Georgia Legislature voted Friday to change the state flag to a version that echoes the Confederate battle emblem, but without the familiar Dixie cross that had led black lawmakers to promise an economic boycott.

Lawmakers agreed to quash any possibility of a referendum on reviving the Confederate battle emblem, which black lawmakers called a symbol of oppression and which had been a part of the bill.

If the measure is approved by Gov. Sonny Perdue, Georgia voters next March will choose between the temporary flag and the current Georgia flag.

[lugsoul]

Who's dictating? Last I saw, the legislature voted on this in open session.

[lugsoul]

stand watie, you are just incapable of stating a position without mudslinging or hyperbole. I do not hate the Confederate flag. I do not think it should be the state flag of Georgia. Those are not incompatible positions except in your twisted world.

[sweetliberty]

"the legislature voted on this in open session"

In complete fear of, and apparently, to me, against the will of the people, since they were afraid to allow the people to have a vote. But then we have already had that discussion.

[lugsoul]

Apparently - based upon the huge outcry in protest of their decision.</sarcasm>

[sweetliberty]

Sometimes people will stop beating their heads against a wall too.

[Fractional-American]

Intriguing that you use the Iron Cross as an example. I wear an Iron Cross patch because I have always liked the Red Baron (and that, because of Snoopy comics). People who know anything about WWI history (and WWII history) know that the Cross itself is not a racist symbol and that the racist version has a swastika in it, and of course I never wear that version for obvious reasons. My favorite band, Simple Minds, an all Catholic Scottish new wave band, uses a red formee cross symbol (the same shape) and I really doubt they are bigots since they are an ethnically and nationally mixed band. When people ask me what it means I explain it to them and unless they have an axe to grind they usually accept that explanation. The Red Baron sure wasn't a Nazi.

dog

[Fractional-American]

Have you noticed that any suggestion of judeochristianity is considered verboten in many areas of the US (such as California), while just about every other religion, including atheism, humanism and paganism, is not only freely displayed but practically shoved down our throats? The new building proposed for the WTC site is called "Earth Plaza" or something similar, which instantly made me think of Earth Day, Gaia and all that other Final Fantasy new age earth-goddess stuff, replacing the secular name WORLD Trade Center. The word "World" in the original name meant the secular world, secular as in Novus ordo seclorum. "Earth" has a new age pagan hippy connotation. Was it Noah Webster who said that the USA was founded on a judeochristian ethic? (That wasn't precisely what he said but I think you get the idea.) So why does the religion of the founding fathers always get shoved to the back of the bus nowadays?

dog

[BnBlFlag]

Why don't you take a hike and go back over to DU where you belong?

[Budge]

Lugsoul, I've only read down to your post 104 so far. I think I read a post by you earlier where you said you were a native Georgian. Please correct me if I'm in error there.

I have no idea how old you are, but I'll hazard a guess of between 25 and 35. If you wish to tell your age, it may help in what I'm about to say.

First off, I'm 68, born and raised in the great state of Texas. I moved to Arkansas in 1984 to be closer to my sister who was suffering from cancer. We grew up when segregation was the norm in the south. We were raised by a wonderful woman who, at the time was called a "colored lady." She, along with our parents, taught us what "respect" meant. We played almost daily with Nora's children, Josey and Betty, who were a couple years older than I. I'll never forget the one and only time, after hearing other kids or adults, whichever, use the term "nigger" that I spoke the word. First, my mother washed my mouth out with soap, told our wonderful Nora what I had said and to discipline me however she thought best. Nora marched me into one of the upstairs bathrooms and, you guessed it, another soap mouth washing! Dad, when he heard the news, turned me over his knee and spanked me.

As I grew older I began to realize that some people treated Nora differently than my sister and I, most notablly when she would take us to the movies where we had to sit in the balcony. Then the obglitory soda at the nearby durgstore. Nora was allowed to bring us into the drugstore but not allowed to stay and have a drink with us. Even though the "soda jerk" was a "colored person." I had several more years of growing up to fully comprehend the "why." When I did finally understand the "why," I thought it totally unfair, and not just to Nora, but all "colored people," and vowed to someday do what I could to put an end to segregation.

Back to my point. Even though my sister and I were now in school, Nora would help us with many subjects, including but not limited to, history. I still have the enormous Webster's dictionary she often used as a teaching aid. Nora taught us how to respect "Old Glory," the Texas state flag, and yes, even the Stars And Bars. She taught us a lot about the Civil War, and from a "colored person's" point of view. Never, never was she 'offended' by the Stars And Bars (that many erroneously claim was a 'battle flag,' it wasn't, but the flag of the Confederate States). Nora was born in the south. She was just as proud of the Stars And Bars as she was of the Flag of the United States.

Since my sister's death four years ago, I have lost touch with Josey and Betty, much to my regret. Nora had a stroke in 1958, and was no longer able to work. But we stayed in close contact until her death in 1975. By then segregation had been abolished roughly ten years in our part of Texas. Many, many times we discussed current events in her modest home. I can tell you this in all honestly. Nora was appaled at the actions of some "black folks" even then. She hated the disrespect her "brothers" blatently showed any white person. She detested the poor upbringing so many of the young blacks showed to anyone, even their elders.

I thank God that this lady didn't live to see the false "offense" so many of today's black "leaders" display at the drop of a hat.

Now, if you are old enough to remember, did the flag ever offend you, at least before the race-baiters told you it did?

I'd wager it never even crossed your mind.

As a footnote, I have begun to regret my stand to abolish segregation.

Why, you ask?

Because of people like Jesse Jackson and his ilk constantly stiring up hatred against the white people. He is no more following the teaching and desires of Martin Luther King, Jr., who simply wanted to end segregation and give blacks the same opprotunity as whites. MLK is probably spinning in his grave at the actions, lies, blackmail, and hatred that Jackson is teaching in his name.

[Budge]

i'm an American Indian (PLEASE do NOT call us "native americans", unless you mean only that we were born in the USA;that is some more of the STUPID, ignorant, arrogant, PC-nonsense,...

Thank you, thank you, thank you, stand watie!!

I have NO American Indian blood coursing through my veins, yet I was born in Texas. If that doesn't make me a "native American," then what am I?

Again, thank you for saying this!

[Budge]

Polybius, again, I appreciate your posts on this thread. They are the most reasoned, rational and uninflamed posts I have seen on FR on this topic, and I, for one, thank you for defending our history.

Please allow me to join you in the thanks to Polybius.

[lugsoul]

no.

[lugsoul]

Sort of a native. My dad's from here. I have family in NW Georgia and the metro area. I was born in TN, raised in AL, live in GA. 'Bout as close as I can get without being born here.

I am a bit older than you surmise.

Keep reading. I am not offended by the battle flag. Haven't said that I am. The issue is its use as the state flag of Georgia. On that issue, my view shifted a bit when I read the testimony of Denmark Groover. And, while the evidence is not conclusive either way, it seems to me that the weight of the evidence is that the '56 flag was a middle finger to those who demanded that all Georgians share the same rights. Me, I believe the man who introduced the bill over the denials of avowed segregationists running from their record. And, as I said upthread, I heard the tale from one who was in that legislature - one of the many abstentions from the vote. [Still a question no one wants to address - why so many abstentions among white men on a vote that allegedly was simply to honor the Centennial?]

If you believe that version of events - which so many here do backflips to avoid - there is no way, in my opinion, to support the use of that state flag without supporting the reason it was raised. Plain and simple. For those who don't like my position, fine. For those who claim that everyone who doesn't agree with them is a race-baiting scalawag, well, they've already demonstrated the limitations on their cognitive abilities. But raising that flag was little different, at the time, than posting a "whites only" sign at the park. And I don't cotton to that. I think it is far more appropriate to honor the CSA with other symbols that haven't been tainted like that, by those who wave it for all the wrong reasons.

[Fractional-American]

You are entitled to your beliefs, however, race-baiters like Je$$e Jackson do not speak for the majority of black Americans, nor do black thugs represent us. Most crime committed by predatory blacks is perpetrated against other blacks, like my family, because the thugs know they can get away with it. We had to move out of our supposedly middle-class black neighborhood when I was a kid because punks who shared our skin color but not our work ethic kept breaking into our house. Currently the dog fighters who live across the street from me, who broke into our yard and killed both of our dogs, and who have brown skin but don't deserve to be called either black or American, have me afraid to leave the house. I'm blacker than they are, and reinstating segregation in the US wouldn't deter them from criminal acts, it would just make it harder for me to find a place to live or work, and I have never stirred up hatred against white people, nor do I support Je$$e (Clinton) Jackson or Louis Unfairrakhan.

dog

[Budge]

Thanks for your reply, lugsoul. I understand your position and will not argue or debate your position. You certainly have that right.

I am a bit older than you surmise.

Well dad-gum! While you didn't tell your age, or even a rough estimate, that too is really your business, not mine.

But I would like to know, if you're old enough [grin], did you ever give the Confederate flag much thought before the race-baiting pimps said we all should be offended?

As a side note, I personally think Hollywood/movies contributed more to the idea that flag was associated with the KKK. I don't mean current movies so much as movies I saw years ago. The only current movie that does, to my limited knowledge, is "Oh Brother, Where Art Thou?" which I still watch frequently, mainly because of the music, plus it is simply a fun plot.

Actually, you say you're not offended by the flag, rather its use as the state flag of Georgia.

There must be a reason, probably in one of your earlier posts here, but my question above still stands. Something or someone made you (and the rest of the nation) aware that they were "offended."

I really would like an honest answer to that question.

Stay well, FReeper!

[Budge]

You are entitled to your beliefs, however, race-baiters like Je$$e Jackson do not speak for the majority of black Americans, nor do black thugs represent us.

I'm afraid I don't understand the bold comment (above) in your reply to me.

I share your opinion of Je$$e Jack$on, and that he does not speak for the majority of blacks! The "Rev" has corrupted every dream of MLK. Dr. King never advocated the twisted, perverse actions Je$$e claims today! IMHO, had MLK, Jr. lived, I truly do not think the growing resentment between blacks and whites would exist today, outside of the "thugs," both black and white.

Something I have never understood is the seperation of blacks as a race.

Aren't people of every color and shade members of the human race?

We all share the same color blood, skeleton, organs. The only difference is the "paint job," so to speak.

I am so sorry to hear of the degradition of your neighborhoods! To have to have moved from your origional middle-class neighborhood because of the thugs is offensive to ALL people. To now be afraid to leave your home because of the dog fighters who live across the street, is offensive and sad. There is no reason for people to act that way!

I can do nothing but wish you good fortune and good luck.

[Fractional-American]

Sorry, I must have misunderstood your intent. You are miles ahead of most people in stating that races don't exist and that people are all just different color phases of one species, like dogs, cats, cows and every other animal that comes in more than one color. I dunno if you believe in the Judeochristian Bible, but it says the same thing, that G-d created two humans and we are all descendants of Adam and Eve (and Noah's family). I think this rebel flag issue is a bunch of crap, because most of the people I know who use it are not in the least racist (bikers, rock musicians, hunters, rednecks and just "country" folks of all stripe). Check out this hunting page, which has nothing to do with race: Baydog.com

I primarily remember the rebel flag from The Dukes of Hazzard, which was certainly not a racist show. I think rednecks ought to reclaim the flag from racist idiots, and black people ought to start wearing it en masse to spit in the face of the Kook Klux Klowns and their ilk. I wear it all the time as a bandanna (when I am not wearing my Old Glory bandanna), and I wear the 1956 Georgia flag as a patch on my jacket, and I ALWAYS get compliments from native Georgians (black and white) I meet in Cali. Considering that we are at war with terrorists, there are a lot more important things for Americans to have on their minds than a 150-year-old historic flag. I am an amateur vexillologist and I like ALL the historic flags of our great nation including this unnecessarily controversial one. Check out my Redneck Pitbull page, which I made more for fun than anything.

Again, I am sorry I misunderstood you! What we need is segregation of race-baiters and criminal thugs from United Statesian society. There's no difference between Louis Unfairrakhan and Uncle Tom Metzger. Remember the show of unity by people of all nationalities after 9/11? It lifted my spirits to see my black, white, American Indian, Latin and Asian neighbors (some of them immigrants) all flying and uniting under Old Glory and wearing US flag shirts, and that memorial ceremony in Yankee Stadium, which was a true melting pot if ever ther was one, made me all the prouder to be a US citizen.

dog

[Budge]

Thank you so much for your reply, FA!

You are miles ahead of most people in stating that races don't exist and that people are all just different color phases of one species, like dogs, cats, cows and every other animal that comes in more than one color.

Boy howdy, I am mighty proud you accept my home-grown, down south view I've always held about the human race! And I love your analolgy of cats, dogs, cows, etc. I'll have to add that wnext time I get on a "rampage" with folks.

I get to talk to a lot of folks. I've been a Wal-Mart greeter for a little over five years now, in a town that is 70% black. Prior to my greeter job I was in radio as a DJ, and even hosted a short talk show here. My boss threatened me several times when I expressed my conservative views, but my audience listened and never threatened me! We got along beautifully even when we held opposing views. I respected them and they respected me. Even today many people come up and talk of those days and what fun we had. :)

I hear young blacks complain how they are held back...because of the white man. I do my best to try to explain to the how it was when I was growing up, when segregation was the norm. Some have the light turned on, many do not, and that saddens me. i believe their minds have been poisoned by PC and the "race baiting" pimps. They think, because I have white skin that I have never experienced discrimination (a word that has been twisted by the PC crowd into something evil when it actually meant something good). Hell, I'm a triple amputee, no arms and one leg. Not something an employer can overlook! You'd be amazed at how many jobs I have been turned away from because of my "handicap.' Not too long after I lost my limbs I finally landed a job with W.T.(?) Grants in their collection department in Houston. Listening to my co-workers on the phones (there were a bunch of them in that room), and the disrespect in the manner they talked to the customer disgusted me. I lasted a little over one month in that job. When I asked why I was being let go and was it because the people I talked to were not paying on their past-due accounts, my boss said, "No, not that. In fact, you have the highest collection rate of anybody here, you're just not nasty enough."

How's that for discrimination? I treated every one I called with respect, didn't brow-beat them, and they responded by paying what they could. I call it simple courtesy.

I think rednecks ought to reclaim the flag from racist idiots, and black people ought to start wearing it en masse to spit in the face of the Kook Klux Klowns and their ilk. I wear it all the time as a bandanna (when I am not wearing my Old Glory bandanna), and I wear the 1956 Georgia flag as a patch on my jacket, and I ALWAYS get compliments from native Georgians (black and white)...

The reclaimtion of the flag is a great idea, and I think many of us in the south are trying to do that. Do you remember the black gentleman that was marching across Dixie carrying the Rebel flag? (My brain broke and I cannot think of his name off hand.) Anyway our local FReeper group, Hog Wild FReepers had planned on meeting up with him in Louisiana. The FReeper in charge of setting it all up stayed in contact with him. This was cshortly before Christmas last year. We were about a week away from the trip when his van that was following him broke down. He decided to return to his home, get the van repaired and continue his march after New Year. Unfortunately, he forgot to contact us and by the time he did, the trip would have been too far for the majority of FReepers to make. We all admire that man for his courage, and I would have been so honored to have met him in person!

You remind me of him, and I would be extremely honored to someday meet you, as I suspect any FReeper would!

As far as the Kook Klux Klowns, that organization is now a toothless, cowering dog IMHO. There are race-baiters on both sides of the fence. Those are the people I loath.

Shoot, I have to end this and get to work. But I promise I will continue after I get home. It is such a pleasure to "talk" to you!

Stay well and safe, my FRiend!

[stand watie]

your a fine one to talk. since i do NOT agree with you, my world is "twisted"???

who died and made you arbiter of my opinions or for that matter of anyone else's opinion in the southland ???

in GA especially, you seem to be in the smalest of minorities.

FRee dixie,sw

[stand watie]

WELOME!

free dixie,sw