Georgia Flag Will Not Carry Rebel Battle Flag

CNN.com ^ | 04/25/03 | CNN

[lugsoul]

Georgia flag will not carry Dixie cross Friday, April 25, 2003 Posted: 10:30 PM EDT (0230 GMT)

ATLANTA, Georgia (AP) -- The Georgia Legislature voted Friday to change the state flag to a version that echoes the Confederate battle emblem, but without the familiar Dixie cross that had led black lawmakers to promise an economic boycott.

Lawmakers agreed to quash any possibility of a referendum on reviving the Confederate battle emblem, which black lawmakers called a symbol of oppression and which had been a part of the bill.

If the measure is approved by Gov. Sonny Perdue, Georgia voters next March will choose between the temporary flag and the current Georgia flag.

[sweetliberty]

Polybius gets it.

[stainlessbanner]

A well-though out piece of work, my friend. Excellent read.

[sweetliberty]

Ping!

[Viet Vet in Augusta GA]

The current flag is ugly (voted ugliest in the world by flag hobbyists, called vexillologists).
The new one is beautiful, and strongly reminiscent of the Confederate flag for those who know their history.
The 1956 flag is divisive.
Case closed, let's move on for the benefit of all Georgians.

[WhiskeyPapa]

bump

[Polybius]

Look, lugsoul, in the spirit of this post on another thread let's get a fresh start.

Have you considered that your side will get much more co-operation and less hostilty if they don't throw out the hostile "Offensive" and "You Must have a Racist Agenda" accusations at any thing they don't like and anybody that questions you?

Sweetliberty, a polite lady wrote to you : "I really don't have enough information about Georgia's history regarding the state flag to make that judgement at this point. Provide me with a link to additional information and I will consider it."

Your reply was so in-your-face to her that she replied; "You do not have to get ugly about it."

In my first to post to you, I pointed out the two versions of the 1956 events and asked you if you had primary source documentation. That's a pretty standard Step Number One for historical research.

When I pointed out that your reply provided no primary sources, just present day interpretations, your reply was automatically dealing the "Race Card": "Must be because you want something other than a Confederate flag".

You claim that you "do not denigrate the battle flag". Yet, in Post 106, you compared it to the political Swastika symbol of Nazi Germany, a symbol that represented the wilfull genocide of over ten million Jews, Slavs and other so-called untermenchen and represented the regime that was responsible for over 40 million deaths in Europe:......."it's analogous to saying, "I know that the swaztika has a long history as a positive symbol, but that history was tainted by a few folks who put it to horrible symbolic use."

"Defecating" is too mild an analogy for that. In hospitals, patients defecate on the bedspreads all the time. After laundering and sanitizing the bedspreads are as good as new and in use under another patient.

However, nothing, until all historical memory of Nazi Germany is totally erased can ever sanitize the sheer evil and horror that you equated the Southern Cross with in Post 106.

Since you brought of "hate groups in Germany" using the Southern Cross, Germany will serve as a very good example of how the honor of a Battle Emblem has been preserved in Germany.

As you know, "hate groups" love the Iron Cross. They wear it, they tatoo it on their skins, they fly flags with it and a Google Search even shows that they have a hate group rock band with the name "Iron Cross".

However, the Iron Cross is not a political symbol. It was the symbol of the valor of the German soldier.

During World War II, the Nazis put a Swastika in the center of the Iron Cross medals they awarded to their soldiers. After World War II, Germany recalled all those Iron Crosses. The German veterans, many who later served with NATO forces in the new German armed forces were then given new Iron Crosses with the Swastika removed to wear on their NATO uniforms.

Today, the emblem of the German soldier and airman on German military armor and aircraft is......the Iron Cross:

The honor of the Iron Cross was not allowed to be stolen by one of the most evil and bloodthirsty regimes in all of human history or by hate groups wearing it on both sides of the Atlantic.

And yet, now we have the Southern Cross AKA, the Confederate Battle Flag:

From 1978 to 1985, that flag was seen weekly on a top rated, albeit silly family TV show named The Dukes of Hazzard decorating the car of the show's "Good Guys":

Back then, before NAACP race-baiters began their campaign, nobody thought that the Southern Cross on a network TV show represented a "hate symbol" any more that they thought that the Iron Cross on a 1985 German war plane represented a "hate symbol".

After the NAACP race-baiters began their campaign, a child can not wear an old Dukes of Hazzards T-Shirt to school with the parents being accused of being racists.

Two years, I met a member of the World War II vintage aircaft association, "The Confederate Air Force". He told me that that totally non-political association was going to have to change it's whimsical name because they were afraid of losing corporate sponsors. So now, the "Commemorative Air Force" owns, flies and displays some original German World War II aircraft with authentic World War II color schemes complete with the Nazi Swastika.......but they dare not use their old whimsical name because of the word "Confederate"........Go figure.

If a honorable historical emblem is allowed to be forever tarnished because it is used by a few thousand racist nut cases parading down the streets of Washington, DC or Berlin, then we will have few symbols left.

The Christian Cross....used by the KKK. The Stars and Stripes....used by the KKK. The Southern Cross....used by the KKK. The Iron Cross...used by Skinheads. The Celtic Cross...used by Skinheads.

When you were in high school, lugsoul, what was the best way for a student to get turned down for a date? Was it to be told he/she was fat, ugly, repulsive, boring, zit-faced?

Maybe your side, if some are offended, should try the "I'm so sorry. I have a lot of homework that night" approach.

Instead of saying, "The Southern Cross is an offensive and racist symbol", why doesn't your side say "Why don't we all agree not to let what should be an honorable symbol of the Confederate soldiers be involved in an unseemly political squabble. Let's all agree to take it from the flag so that the memory of honorable soldiers is not mixed with the often unsavory world of the politicians".

You may find that you will catch a lot more flies with honey than with vinager.

[sweetliberty]

From another thread...

"but the Stainless Banner itself contains a prominent emblem of a well known hate group"

I would challenge you, Walt, to read polybius' posts #49, 54, 93, 105, 111, 115, 126, 130, and 146. You might learn something. I realize it's a longshot, but it can't hurt.

Polybius, again, I appreciate your posts on this thread. They are the most reasoned, rational and uninflamed posts I have seen on FR on this topic, and I, for one, thank you for defending our history.

[sweetliberty]

What I have seen repeatedly in this thread is that lugsoul has no problem whatsoever with the "giving of the middle finger" to a group of citizens. He just wants to be the one to say to which group it is given. That is not to say that I believe that representations of the Confederate battle flag do that. I do, however, believe that attempting to destroy it does exactly that.

Whoever said that using a benign and boring flag to represent a state, particularly a southern state, because it has no emotional impact, might as well be saying that we should use gas logs instead of wood in fireplaces to remove that pesky heat factor. Or how about neutering all men to avoid all that aggression. Oh yeah, that is already being attempted, interestingly enough by the same types who want to remove all representations of the battle flag from state flags in the south.

[stand watie]

lugsole dos NOT.

must be a product of the "pubic screwl eduakation".

FRee dixie,sw

[sweetliberty]

"lugsole dos NOT."

Obviously.

[sweetliberty]

"i can ALWAYS count on you showing up with an ignorant, off-point,hatefilled, stupid comment!"

Oh good. I am glad that I was not the only one with that perception.

[stand watie]

TRUE!

the battleflag HATERS, if you scratch the surface, are just BIGOTS in PC-attire. if it weren't the battleflag, they would pick out something else to "feel superior" about in their dreary little lives.

meanwhile, i would also say that the southrons will win, longterm. it took ireland 400 YEARS to win her freedom;while i do not think dixie will have to wait as long to be free, i would remind all that southrons are patient & have LONG memories.

free dixie,sw

[stand watie]

YEP, the post-1956 flag is devisive to about 1% of Georgians, mostly the power & $$$$$$-hungry racebaiters of the naaLcp, damnyankees & the shysters of the splc.

i'm, for one southron, sick to death of listening to their hatefilled, arrogant, ignorant, revisionist rants on EVERY subject that comes up. if they so love the northern socialist states, let them leave the south forever & everyone will be happier.

i'd just ask each one who moves north to take a scalawag along,under each arm;there is no place for scalawags here either.

free dixie,sw

[sweetliberty]

"They took it off of the capitol and put it in a memorial - a perfect use."

If that is such a perfect use (and I agree that it is) then pray tell, why has the NAACP changed it position to now demand its removal from the memorial as well? I would venture to say it is because this is not an issue about being offended at all (and even if it were, so what?) It is about being a bully and keeping control over people, both black and white. It is about revising history. It is about making themselves to be somehow something other than what they actually are. And it is undoubtedly about money. I hear that extortion can be quite lucrative.

[stand watie]

both of us are NOT the only ones who think he's a moron, hater & bigot. trust me on that.

i've gotten NUMEROUS private freepmails from forum members asking me why i bother to answer an idiot.

free dixie,sw

[lugsoul]

Destroy it? That's just hyperbole.

[sweetliberty]

"Destroy it? That's just hyperbole."

Okay. How about render invisible? That is what it comes down to isn't it? Political correctness is trying to render invisible ALL important symbols of this country, including the Christian cross. Out of sight, out of mind. This is wrong, by the way.

[lugsoul]

I don't know why they changed their position. I don't speak for them. I have no problem at all with the flag at a memorial where its obvious purpose is to memorialize the veterans of the CSA.

[stand watie]

i was THERE when the negotiator for the naaLcp SIGNED the "permanent compromise" on re-locating the flag to the front of the statehouse.

when the naaLcp (& their LIBERAL/socialist/racebaiting allies in the north) discovered that they had LOST, rather than winning, they DISAVOWED the document they had signed less than 2 weeks before.

funny how it's OK for the liberals/haters/scalawags/naaLcp racebaiters to LIE, WHINE, COMPLAIN & CHEAT isn't it? did you hear anything about their LIES on TV, radio or in the "news"papers????

NO? i thought NOT!

FRee dixie,sw

[sweetliberty]

"But it does have that connontation"

And who gave it that connotation? Was it the Confederates themselves who fought bravely under it in its many representations? Absolutely not! It was the modern day professional offendees who are dependent on racial devisiveness to justify their continued existence.

Polybius has given an excellent, and in my opinion, unbiased view, of the flag issue as a Cuban American immigrant. Here is another excellent view given by someone who never had a personal agenda to serve:

An Englishman's Take on the Confederate Flag