Report: Uh, it's like student writing is bad

CNN ^ | 25APR03 | AP

[Alberta's Child]

Your post is not as far-out as it may seem. One of the things I've found with poor writers is that they tend to write things exactly the same way they would say them out loud, even in a formal report.

[Lou L]

I really fear for his prospects as he gets into college and beyond.

No offense, but it sounds like your nephew shouldn't be seen anywhere near a college, much less be accepted to one.

[LonePalm]

I am ensuring that my children are not part of the problem.

My son, GrimmFReeper, is in the 7th grade. If he wants ANY help with his writing assignments, he must show me a written copy of the assignment and a written outline showing how he broke down the assignment prior to beginning. He must also be prepared to show how the outline he is working from satisfies the assignment.

GF doesn't like the extra work but he does like the quality of help that he gets. He likes my writing more than his and he gets better grades when he asks for help. He is learning fast. I have seen a major improvement in his writing since I instituted these requirements at the beginning of the year. He is also learning from the spelling and grammar checker built in to MS Word. He is responsible for fixing all spelling and grammar errors prior to asking for help.

If he doesn't want my help, he doesn't have to do the extra work. He is still responsible for maintaining a minimum grade of 85 in ALL his classes and a minimum grade of 75 on EVERY single assignment, test, or quiz.

Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)
LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)

[retrokitten]

Right out of high school (ten years ago! ouch!) I went to an artsy Chicago college with no real entrance requirements. There were many people from Chicago public schools who went to this college (I was from a suburban school). On the first day of my English class we had to write a short paper about a dream we had recently. Then, we exchanged papers and were supposed to proofread the other students paper. I am not a writer and don't claim any wonderful writing ability, but I can at least structure a sentence so it's readible. (But I am a horrible speller! LOL!)

I could not believe the paper I was passed. It was about a page and a half and one long paragraph. There were periods and capital letters just put where ever. This person had obviously never been taught even any basic grammar rules- like period goes at the end of the sentence, capital letter at start of a new sentence. The thoughts had no order. It was like reading something that my eight year old nephew had written. I was just stunned that someone who couldn't put a paragraph together could graduate high school.

After that, I went to my social sciences class. To say it would was dumbed down would be an insult to classes that have been dumbed down. I think it was geared for kids at a jr. high reading level or lower. I couldn't believe that this was a college level course. I lasted less then a week at this school. The following year I enrolled some where else and things were much better.

[Oberon]

Just demanding that 'good writing' be taught is a pipe dream.

You're right. Fortunately, my solution is to say "Honey, can I see the kids' latest writing assignments?" My wife, who teaches the kids at home, will let me analyze for use of dangling participles or passive voice, and of course the odd spelling error (they're young, after all), which I then point out to the kids.

It helps that our homeschool association has set up a once-a-week class specifically for writing, in addition to the work they're already doing.

Am I being arrogant? Yeah, some. I have the advantage that my wife and I went into parenthood with the understanding that providing for childrens' education is the parents' responsibility, and we elected not to farm the job out.

[scouse]

Others parts of speech

Gerunds, You omitted gerunds. Gerunds are my favorite. If I had a puppy dog I would name him Gerund.:^)

[spodefly]

If the elocution, diction, and compositional skills of students are sub-par, those of us in the older age brackets will continue to more easliy find employement in fields that require eloquence and precision in verbal and written communications while our children will be out digging ditches and picking strawberries with the illegal aliens.

The only downside I can think of is that we will also have to shoulder the entire tax burden for the nation because all the mind-numbed socialist thralls exiting zombie-like from our public schools will never earn enough to support the monstrous federal bureaucracies that have led to our ruin.

Like, you know what I'm sayin'.

[You Dirty Rats]

NY Times crossword puzzle ... that and the date are the only two accurate items in it!

[kdmhcdcfld]

Of course student writing is bad. Teaching the art of writing in the public education mills is not as important as the indoctrination of the students into the politically correct agendas of radical environmentalism, homosexuality, moral relativism...

[CommerceComet]

They might not know how to write but the students can competently put a condom on a cucumber.

[Maigrey]

Well, duh! Since, like, no one teaches the fundamentals, and, is like, so worried about self-esteem that they, uh, spend more time and energy inflating there non-exsistent self confidence than, like, teaching them how to communicate effectively.
(The errors contained within are intentional, for those who cannot discern the difference.)

[goodnesswins]

Ahem...

RANT ON....

1. Does anyone hear remember "diagramming sentences?" Just wondering. (It's about DISCIPLINE)

2. Yesterday, I was walking through the grocery store and the middle school kids had just gotten done for the day and many come through the store....I heard one precious young girl say...."I ain't got no money...." and turning, thought of explaining to her that if she continued talking like that she would NEVER have any MONEY...but...alas, she was black, and I sure didn't want to get in trouble.

3. I worked last year for a company whose sole purpose was evaluating and assessing writing skills of middle, junior high, and high school kids....of course in tough money times these are the kinds of services that are likely cut first. I'm not real hopeful from what I saw....

I think the demand for good writing comes from HOME...the same with speaking skills. (And, it the demand needs to be made by parents of the teachers, too.)

/RANT

[goodnesswins]

hear = here......sheesh.

[Sloth]

Amen. Gerunds ROCK!

[Taliesan]

Typical goofball solution to a simple problem. You don't make better writers by teaching "writing theory". You make better writers by getting them to read good writing, and then write.

Then you give them feedback like: "There are no paragraphs. Create paragraphs, and turn it back in." And if they don't, you flunk them.

That will fix it.

[goodnesswins]

I hated gerunds! In fact, so much so, that I've forgotten what the heck they are. (Adverbs in disguise?)

[Paul Atreides]

Not only do a lot of young people not write properly, but they do not see the need in doing so. In fact, if you correct some of them, you will get a slick cursing.

I was in a college literature course a few months ago, and a fellow student (who is otherwise a very nice person) was complaining to me because the instructor took off points from his test for poor spelling. I have borrowed the notes of other students and was shocked at how many simple words were misspelled over and over.

[mountaineer]

I disagree. tdadams' nephew sounds just like the college students in my town and in the one five miles down the road, where my husband works. A quick perusal of college newspapers might convince you that most college students are truly bad writers, ignorant of the most basic rules of grammar and incapable of expressing themselves coherently.

[Sloth]

I heard one precious young girl say...."I ain't got no money...." and turning, thought of explaining to her that if she continued talking like that she would NEVER have any MONEY...but...alas, she was black, and I sure didn't want to get in trouble.

I see a significant difference between informal communication between peers and situations that call for "good English." There are certain settings where I might very well say "I ain't got no money," or even write it, if I was shooting for a folksy, colloquial tone.

[glory]

Boy, this is a big reason(as if there weren't others) that we plan to homeschool. From what I have seen in this area, we will be homeschooling anyway--school would basically just be daycare if we sent the kids and then we'd school them at home. Parental involvement is fine, but when kids are coming home with hours of homework in lower grades, one has to wonder what is being accomplished in schools? I remember learning lessons in school and then, at least in lower grades, having a minimal amount of homework which was mostly review. Now I see second graders coming home with chapters to read and go over with their parents, worksheets, etc. Entire lessons to learn instead of just review. Things that seem like they should be covered in school.