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Gay rights and the end of American morality
TownHall.com ^ | 4/23/03 | Ben Shapiro

Posted on 04/22/2003 9:26:28 PM PDT by kattracks

Where do you draw the moral line regarding sexual behavior? Sen. Rick Santorum (R-Pa.), a Catholic, draws the line at homosexuality. Regarding a pending Supreme Court case on the Texas state sodomy law, Santorum told the Associated Press: "If the Supreme Court says that you have the right to consensual (gay) sex within your home, then you have the right to bigamy, you have the right to polygamy, you have the right to incest, you have the right to adultery. You have the right to anything."

This statement was directly in line with the Judeo-Christian values upon which this country is based. Gay and lesbian activist groups immediately attacked him.

Mark Shields, associate director of communications for the Human Rights Campaign, the nation's largest gay advocacy organization, told me the remarks were "insulting, it flies in the face of scientific and medical data, common sense and basic decency."

Chris Young, president of the League of Gay and Lesbian Voters, in a phone interview, called Santorum's assertion an "all-out attack against lesbian and gay people."

Michael Heflin, director of the OutFront program (a wing of Amnesty International), told me that Santorum's statement was "outrageous ... totally inappropriate."

All of these organizations called for Santorum to resign as chairman of the GOP conference in the Senate. Under severe pressure, Santorum issued a press release stating that his comments "should not be misconstrued in any way as a statement on individual lifestyles."

While the comparison between homosexuality and bigamy/polygamy/incest/adultery no doubt hurt feelings, none of these gay-rights advocates could explain why the comparison was faulty. How could they? For those who believe in the veracity of the Bible, Santorum merely restated an already accepted view. For those who have an arbitrary moral standard based on personal feeling or logic, consensual acts of bigamy/polygamy/incest/adultery are identical to consensual acts of homosexuality. Eventually, each representative acknowledged to me that any view that accepted homosexuality as moral had to accept bigamy and polygamy as moral, too.

When I asked Shields where Santorum was wrong in his comparison, Shields could only state that "there's a huge difference," without explaining why. He went on to accuse Santorum of "playing to people's most base and deep-seated fears ... (fueling) the kind of prejudice that leads to, often, hate crimes and other kinds of discrimination." Shields refused to comment on whether the HRC would oppose laws against bigamy and polygamy, noting that those causes "are absolutely outside of our mission statement."

Young was more honest. "I think that different people have different sets of morals, and I think that as Americans, we should be able to accommodate those to the extent that nobody else is harmed ... There is a question about bigamy and polygamy that I don't want to get into. I personally am not wild about those ideas, but I'm not clear whether those really should be regulated either." Young stated that Santorum had a moral obligation to prevent religious beliefs from influencing policy. He also accused Santorum of cynicism and insincerity, telling me, "I don't believe he's sincere because I know the guy. ... I don't think he has a sincere bone in his body."

Heflin maintained that homosexuality couldn't be compared to bigamy/polygamy/incest/adultery, since "we're talking about sexual relationships between consenting adults on the one hand, and on the other hand, you're talking about situations where there's a general consensus that the government does have a right to regulate sexual relationships." His basis for the view that homosexuality was more moral than bigamy? "International law." After a few minutes, Heflin conceded that while "we don't take a position on bigamy, polygamy and incest ... I think these are going to be important debates."

This issue comes down to the conflict between Judeo-Christian morality and arbitrary morality. The gay-rights advocates I interviewed were forced to admit that their logic gives bigamists and polygamists the right to pursue their lifestyle legally. Their stated moral boundaries changed during the course of our conversations.

While there can be a reasoned debate about whether the state has business legislating sexual activity, there can be no doubt that any moral system condoning homosexuality must also let other, less widely accepted sexual practices through the door. If that fluid, careless amalgam of values based on feelings and personal logic ever takes precedence, America will suffer the fate of ancient Rome.

©2003 Creators Syndicate, Inc.

Contact Ben Shapiro | Read his biography



TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: antibible; antifamily; antigod; benshapiro; gayagenda; gayelite; gayrights; governmentschools; homosexual; homosexualagenda; homosexuality; sin; tyranny
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1 posted on 04/22/2003 9:26:29 PM PDT by kattracks
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To: kattracks
Rick Santorum has my support for what it's worth.
2 posted on 04/22/2003 9:32:10 PM PDT by lilylangtree
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To: kattracks
When man plays God and starts making up moral laws to suit his corrupt nature, the wide path to destruction gets a lot slicker.
3 posted on 04/22/2003 9:34:46 PM PDT by Russell Scott (When you ignore God's instruction, you end up in the Devil's destruction.)
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To: kattracks
From the article "While the comparison between homosexuality and bigamy/polygamy/incest/adultery no doubt hurt feelings, none of these gay-rights advocates could explain why the comparison was faulty."

Exactly!
4 posted on 04/22/2003 9:38:10 PM PDT by Theresawithanh (A conservative from the PRC (People's Republic of California))
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To: kattracks
Okay, I personally disagree with what Santorum said, but I had to laugh uproariously at the one activist's stock recourse to "international law." WHAT and WHOSE international law? If people referred to the Constitution as often as they refer to this faux legal sophistry, we'd all be better off. /rant
5 posted on 04/22/2003 9:41:53 PM PDT by ellery
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To: kattracks
BUMP
6 posted on 04/22/2003 9:43:48 PM PDT by TLBSHOW (The gift is to see the truth.....)
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To: kattracks
Gay rights and the end of American morality

Utter bilge. American Morality ended when American women stopped wearing corsets! Or possibly when the last Roadrunner cartoon was made.

7 posted on 04/22/2003 9:47:01 PM PDT by Grut
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To: kattracks
As I have said before and will continue to say: the finger is out of the dike...the cat is out of the bag...and, yes, homosexuals are out of the closet. Human nature that despises God is freed from God's gift of shame. And as such it is shamelessly careening along its predictably destructive course.

How shall we address it?

We can huff and puff our moral indignation till the Second Coming. It won't accomplish anything except perhaps make us feel good.

Or, we can apply wisdom and insight and attempt to do battle, armed with grace and truth.

What I would like to hear is not more huffing and puffing nor crys of "Oh my, oh my, what are we coming to?" What I would like to hear (or read) is an analytical discussion addressing the root issues involved in this great moral divide in our nation.

Surely we have some remnants remaining of the wisdom of our founding fathers.

Anybody?

8 posted on 04/22/2003 9:59:54 PM PDT by kritikos (Truly true truth)
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To: lilylangtree
I'll second that. To hell with the faggots.
9 posted on 04/22/2003 10:00:14 PM PDT by Cvengr
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To: Cvengr
I think the timing of this little battle is the worst. It gives the Democrats some wreckage to grab onto with righteous indignation amidst their sinking ship. Why couldn't Sen. Santorum just keep his mouth shut? He doesn't have a vote on this Supreme Court decision, last time I checked.

That being said, do you honestly believe the United States government or any of the 50 states should be able to arrest people for homosexual acts in their homes? What about non-procreative sex between heterosexuals? What about homosexuals who decide to live together? Should we be watching them to make sure they don't have sex? Since when does Conservative mean that we believe the government should be watching everyone.

Homosexuality was declared a sin by Leviticus. There is no doubt about that. But there are lots of sinful things that are allowed by the United States constitution, and have been allowed for many years. Gambling isn't exactly kosher (pardon my little Jewish pun), but that seems to be legal in a lot of places. The government can't legislate morality onto people's hearts. Leaders can do the best work by living moral lives as an example.
10 posted on 04/22/2003 10:22:42 PM PDT by Buckeye Bomber
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To: kattracks
One more question: since when do people not have the right to adultery? We all know its a horrible act, but is it illegal? If it isn't, and I believe that it isn't, why should it be? Will that stop people? Or will it just give the government another excuse to take more of our freedoms?

Bigamy and polygamy are abolished not because they are sinful, but because they are practices which place large numbers of women under a single man. If polygamy could go either way, then perhaps it might be seen as more acceptable. But the fact is that it is a way for a 30, 40, or 50 year old man to enslave 13 year old girls as his "wives".

There are lots of sexual acts which are sinful that are not illegal. Why should homosexual intercourse be singled outabove all the others?
11 posted on 04/22/2003 10:32:37 PM PDT by Buckeye Bomber
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To: Buckeye Bomber
There are lots of sexual acts which are sinful that are not illegal. Why should homosexual intercourse be singled outabove all the others?

Why not outlaw smoking, overeating, and N'Sync while we're at it? They are all unhealthy, unappealing, and against the norms of what a decent society should be.

12 posted on 04/22/2003 10:37:37 PM PDT by Steel Wolf (Like water in a bucket.... calm but deadly...)
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To: Buckeye Bomber
That being said, do you honestly believe the United States government or any of the 50 states should be able to arrest people for homosexual acts in their homes? What about non-procreative sex between heterosexuals? What about homosexuals who decide to live together? Should we be watching them to make sure they don't have sex? Since when does Conservative mean that we believe the government should be watching everyone.

I agree, we cannot have bedroom police. Yet neither can we survive as a nation with "human passions unbridled."

("We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion...Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams").

So what do we do? Ignore the sexual deviants as they encroach more and more upon culture. And what's next? Bestiality? Public bestiality on a prime time sit-com? Mr. Pedophilia Contests?

And when it comes to that (and believe me, it will) then what do we do?

Serious questions. Real questions.

13 posted on 04/22/2003 10:39:42 PM PDT by kritikos (Truly true truth)
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To: kritikos
Surely we have some remnants remaining of the wisdom of our founding fathers

One thing we know for sure is that, when they had the chance to set up a government from scratch, they chose to leave the decisions about morality and immorality in the hands of the people, and not the state.

Smoking has decreased and dwindled to a shadow of it's former self because its illegal, it's gone away because of decades of education and rational decision making by people who know the consequences. As Americans, we have to believe that, armed with the facts, most people will make choices that are in their own self interest. Trying to reduce social ills by stigma and legislation won't work in a free society, you need to convince people on an individual level that their actions are wrong, or they will keep on doing it.

14 posted on 04/22/2003 10:44:08 PM PDT by Steel Wolf (Like water in a bucket.... calm but deadly...)
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To: Steel Wolf
As Americans, we have to believe that, armed with the facts, most people will make choices that are in their own self interest...

But without balancing self-interest with self-control and my-interest with community-interest we are doomed to fall as did Rome.

Human Nature is not neutral and neither is it inclined to sacrifice self-pleasure for good of the community. It will not happen naturally.

15 posted on 04/22/2003 11:00:56 PM PDT by kritikos (Truly true truth)
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To: Steel Wolf
Young stated that Santorum had a moral obligation to prevent religious beliefs from influencing policy. Bullsh!t! I don't want the likes of clinton influencing and setting policy ... 'oral sex is not sex'! I don't choose to tolerate the degeneracy any longer, so your assertion that "Trying to reduce social ills by stigma and legislation won't work in a free society ..." is so much bilge spittle.

The people in our Republic have a right to set the boundaries of what they will tolerate or not. As the degeneracy rises, bouyed by the devious 'political correctness' mantra to serve liberal civility which embraces all degrees of degeneracy eventually--if it can get votes-- We the People point loudly to the support for degeneracy that candidate offers and vote the degenerate defenders out!

Senator Santorum's comments would get my vote against nearly any democrat opponent because the democrat party has been defending the greater degeneracy for so long now. When his opponent tries to raise the comments Santorum made, in a public outcry trying to generate repudiation for Santorum, We the People who are damn sick and tired of degeneracy and degenerates vote for Santorum. The 'act up' crowd would soon find they had no one willing to continue defending their degeneracy.

16 posted on 04/22/2003 11:07:07 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote Life Support for others.)
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To: kritikos
ping ... you asked
17 posted on 04/22/2003 11:07:53 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote Life Support for others.)
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To: kritikos
But without balancing self-interest with self-control and my-interest with community-interest we are doomed to fall as did Rome.

Yes, you are right, as an overall social assessment. It might be in my self interest to kill and rob my neighbor, but it would harm the community far more, and should be outlawed. That is different from crimes against yourself.

People who smoke, overeat, commit homosexual acts, and listen to N'Sync are commiting immoral, disgusting, and counterproductive acts that are not helpful to society, but we have to be smart about what the best way is to eradicate these ills. Legislation isn't the right tool for these jobs.

18 posted on 04/22/2003 11:14:38 PM PDT by Steel Wolf (Like water in a bucket.... calm but deadly...)
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To: Steel Wolf
Nice try at raising a stealth 'political correctness' plea. Voting out the legislators who defend the degeneracy, that's the way to oppose and overcome the corrosion. Question is, will the people become intolerant enough to stick to their task!
19 posted on 04/22/2003 11:18:38 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote Life Support for others.)
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To: MHGinTN
I agree, we need to use the polls and vote for those candidates that support community morality.

The problem is that we no longer -- nor do I believe we ever will again -- have a public concensus on what is moral and what is immoral. Formerly we had a majority acknowledgment if not agreement regarding basic societal right and wrong.

No more. Our nation is fragmented into self-interest groups to the harm of the greater community.

If we ignore individual responsibility and defer to the ballot to define our morality we are finished as a nation.
20 posted on 04/22/2003 11:22:23 PM PDT by kritikos (Truly true truth)
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