Posted on 04/22/2003 11:34:48 AM PDT by Incorrigible
Tuesday, April 22, 2003
BY JOHN NOLAN
Associated Press
BLUE ASH, Ohio -- A court of Presbyterian Church (USA) officials convicted a minister yesterday of violating church law by marrying same-sex couples.
In the church's first trial on the practice, the court rebuked the Rev. Stephen Van Kuiken but refrained from suspending him or removing him from ministry. It also acquitted Van Kuiken on another charge accusing him of ordaining gays who won't adhere to a Presbyterian requirement of chastity.
Van Kuiken, 44, pastor of Mount Auburn Presbyterian Church in nearby Cincinnati, has acknowledged performing the ceremonies and ordaining gays as elders and deacons. The minister of 19 years contends the church is facing a crisis of theological intolerance.
He said he will appeal the conviction to a commission that oversees Presbyterian churches in Michigan and Ohio. He also said he will continue to ordain gays and to marry same-sex couples.
"I just have to be true to myself, and that's the best I can do," Van Kuiken told reporters. "Our congregation has always felt that these ceremonies are marriages in every way ... gay people are equal."
Van Kuiken was the first minister to be tried on accusations of marrying homosexuals as a result of complaints filed by Presbyterian activists in about 20 locations around the country. Some complaints were investigated and dismissed for lack of evidence and others are pending.
The activists want the 2.5 million-member denomination, based in Louisville, Ky., to require ministers and congregations to obey the Presbyterian constitution.
The Presbyterian Church follows the biblical interpretation generally held by major Christian denominations that marriage is a covenant only between a man and a woman. The highest Presbyterian court ruled in 2000 that ministers may bless same-sex couples but cannot marry them.
The April 8 trial lasted for little more than an hour and was open only to Presbyterian ministers and elders. A guilty verdict required votes from at least five of the seven members of the Cincinnati Presbytery court. The vote on both charges was 6-1.
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But not necessarily true to the Bible or the other rules within the Church you profess to belong.
Why is there an insistence that century old traditions must be changed? Start your own church Reverend and leave everyone else alone.
An Israelite could probably answer that....
Several branches of the Presbyterian Church will have nothing at all to do with such nonsense. Two of the no nonsense branches include the Orthodox Presbyterian Church and the Presbyterian Church in America
What???????
[Van Kuiken] also said he will continue to ordain gays and to marry same-sex couples.
Why won't they toss this person???????
Fulfilling the prophecies of the old testament.
What prophecies pertain to gay marriage?
How about some NT predictions?
2 Timothy 4: 3For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
My comment had to do with the Israelites' propensity to overturn centuries of tradition, only to be punished by God.
As for prophecies pertaining to Gay Marriage in particular, I don't really have one. From context, however, it is pretty clear that because homosexuality itself is seriously frowned-upon, the idea of an actual marriage of homosexuals is pretty much ruled out from the get-go.
And of course, Jesus defined marriage (e.g., in Matthew 19 specifically as between a man and woman. As for anybody else, Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word [marriage], but only those to whom it has been given. For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it." (Matt. 19:11-12).
Thanks for the PING, Martin, but I must confess... I am pleasantly surprised that the USA Presbyterian Church will still bring a Canonical Conviction against any heretic for any Moral Heresy. My Ortho-Presby Denomination broke with the mainline USA Presbyterian Church a looooong time ago.
Though I humbly ask you to keep me on your Ping-List -- If you want to PING a Mainline Presbyterian regarding the last-ditch defense of Morality and Orthodoxy in that long-apostate Church (it's American History so Legendary, it's Current State so Abysmal)... I would humbly suggest that you PING the Freeper Logos.
As he is an active participant in the conservative "Confessors" movement within the mainline USA Presbyterian Church, I shall give him my highest compliment: "Defense of Christian Orthodoxy" within the Presbyterian Church (usa) -- Thy name is LOGOS.
As I said, I am pleasantly shocked that the USA Presbyterian Church will still bring a Canonical Conviction against any heretic whatsoever for any Moral Heresy whatsoever. We left that Church a long time ago.
If you want the Opinions of a Freeper who is still battling in the moral trenches of the PCUSA, please add FReeper "LOGOS" to your PING List.
Thanks and very best regards, OP
I don't know if you've read this entire decision (go to TheLaymanOnline.com to do so), but once you do you'll see that we've given up Solomon for Judge Judy. It's a farce, and pure legal sophistry. If it stands after its journey through the higher church courts it will signal the tolling of the death knell for the PC(USA). One way or the other, we should know in the next few months what the final result will be. GA meets in May. I still have hope, but my bags are (mentally) packed, all the same.
And yes, we hire and fire our own pastors, but in every case they must be approved by the presbytery, which can also dissolve any pastor/church relationship whenever the need arises (just who defines "need" is not always clear).
Just take my word for it; we wouldn't be in this big fight if there were no consequences locally for what is done somewhere else.
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