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Pope's ruling bars Blair from taking Communion with family
The London Times ^ | April 17, 2003 | Richard Owen in Rome and Tom Baldwin

Posted on 04/17/2003 1:05:24 PM PDT by Willie Green

For education and discussion only. Not for commercial use.

ANY hope that Tony Blair had of enjoying a happy, Catholic Easter with his family will be crushed today by the Pope.

John Paul II is issuing a new encyclical that The Times has learnt will explicitly forbid Protestants like the Prime Minister taking Communion with Catholics such as Cherie Blair and their children.

The 83-year-old Pope has chosen Holy Week to stamp on what he sees as dangerously “liberal” interpretations of the Roman Catholic doctrine that only those “in full communion with Rome” can take part in the Eucharist.

Mr Blair, who remains a committed, if ecumenical, member of the Church of England, regularly attends Catholic Mass with his family. He also used to take Communion with them at the St Joan of Arc church in Islington.

But in 1996, he received a letter from Cardinal Basil Hume asking him to desist. In his reply, Mr Blair did not conceal his dismay at such theological conservatism. Saying that he merely wished to worship with his family but had not realised his behaviour was causing offence, he promised he would not do so again. The letter added: “I wonder what Jesus would have made of it?”

Since then Mr Blair, who admits he is strongly drawn to Catholicism, has more than once explored the limits of this doctrine. Britain has never had a Catholic prime minister and in 1998 he had to deny reports he had converted after being spotted going to Westminster Cathedral for Mass unaccompanied by his family. Suggestions that he had received the Eucharist on this occasion were never confirmed.

There have also been rumours that when Mr Blair is on holiday abroad he has taken Communion with his family.

The Pope´s fourteenth encyclical slams the door on the many Catholics and Protestants who currently take Communion together and represents a setback for Dr Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury, who is a firm advocate of ecumenism. When Mr Blair visited the Pope at the Vatican last month, he may have got a hint of what was to come. While his family went to take Communion with the Pope, the Prime Minister only received a blessing. The Pope also made it clear that he disagreed with Mr Blair about war in Iraq.


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To: MikeWUSAF
Big problem is this is a "man-made" law of the church, and not of God nor Jesus.

W.W.J.D

This isn't a case of "Believers" and non-believers, this is a case of follow my rule or else.
21 posted on 04/17/2003 1:21:03 PM PDT by DeathfromBelow
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To: SoothingDave
Lemme get this straight.....Someone chooses to accept Christ and you deny them?
22 posted on 04/17/2003 1:21:29 PM PDT by ffusco ("Essiri sempri la santu fora la chiesa.")
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To: Willie Green
Hmmm, I can't seem to find the part in the Bible where Jesus instructs 'only those “in full communion with Rome” can take part in the Eucharist.'
23 posted on 04/17/2003 1:22:13 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Even if the government took all your earnings, you wouldn’t be, in its eyes, a slave.)
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To: crz
Mille grazie!
24 posted on 04/17/2003 1:22:16 PM PDT by ffusco ("Essiri sempri la santu fora la chiesa.")
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To: MikeWUSAF; ffusco
I don't see where Jesus said anything about being, "in full communion with Rome."

To deny anyone Communion, if they choose to accept it, is FUNDAMENTALLY UN-CHRISTIAN.

1 Corinthians 11:
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

We simply follow Paul's advice. It is not "fundamentally un-Christian" to prevent those who do not "discern the Lord's Body" from "eating and drinking" themselves to damnation.

In fact it's quite charitable to prevent your brethren from falling into a pit.

SD

25 posted on 04/17/2003 1:22:33 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: AdA$tra; jwalsh07; TomSmedley; The Dude Abides; yendu bwam
Ping
26 posted on 04/17/2003 1:22:33 PM PDT by RAT Patrol (Congress can give one American a dollar only by first taking it away from another American. -W.W.)
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To: All
Im pretty sure I can file this under removing the beam from your own eye before trying to spot a mote in mine.
27 posted on 04/17/2003 1:22:33 PM PDT by Samurai_Jack (Im just asking)
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To: F16Fighter
Excellent point. The Pope is toothless, choosing a straw man to attack in the name of piety. Disgraceful.
28 posted on 04/17/2003 1:24:35 PM PDT by ffusco ("Essiri sempri la santu fora la chiesa.")
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To: ffusco
Lemme get this straight.....Someone chooses to accept Christ and you deny them?

See my post 25.

Do you affirm that the Bread and Wine offered in the Catholic Communion are the actual, physical Real Presence of the Body and Blood of Jesus? Do you believe the Bread and Wine change substance and actually become the Body and Blood?

Or is it symbolic?

If you do not affirm the former, then you are not of one faith with us, and we do you a great favor by preventing you from communing.

SD

29 posted on 04/17/2003 1:24:54 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: Willie Green
i come from a Catholic family; however, 20 years ago i became a Protestant... there have been times when i've been present at Catholic communions, (weddings, baptisms, confirmations, etc.,) where the priest invites only the Catholics to participate in the communion ceremony... but i've chosen to take communion anyway... i think the rule is ridiculous... heck, i know i have a relationship with Christ--and i know of several Catholics in my family who do not, yet they are invited to take communion...
30 posted on 04/17/2003 1:26:08 PM PDT by latina4dubya
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To: JohnGalt
Why? Would you prefer the Eps to do likewise?
31 posted on 04/17/2003 1:26:48 PM PDT by stop_fascism
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To: F16Fighter
Wait a minute: Blair is suddenly forbidden to receive Communion, yet known pedophilic priests and CC hierarchal enablers are?

Don't buy the Times' spin. It is attrocious.

Blair is not "suddenly" forbidden. This is just a re-affirmation of existing law, which has slipped in practice in some renegade jurisdictions.

And pedophiles are not in a state to receive communion either. But if you knew anything instead of wanting to cast stones, you would know that already.

Leave what you don't understand alone, OK?

SD

32 posted on 04/17/2003 1:26:58 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: F16Fighter
I don't know, F16, lots of denominations put restrictions on who can receive communion. It's part of the Catholic theology that anyone can take or leave, but if they want to be Catholic they should adhere to Catholicism and its rules.

But I think he should ban the guilty priests from more than just communion.

33 posted on 04/17/2003 1:26:59 PM PDT by RAT Patrol (Congress can give one American a dollar only by first taking it away from another American. -W.W.)
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To: SoothingDave
but it is damned hypocritical for those who have accepted Christ but don't "Conform to Rome".
34 posted on 04/17/2003 1:27:04 PM PDT by DeathfromBelow
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To: JohnGalt
Side note, at an Episcopalian alter, we accept all baptized Christians.

Very true, but when I was a kid if you weren't confirmed Episcopalian, you got the dreaded blessing.
35 posted on 04/17/2003 1:27:36 PM PDT by johnb838 (Free Republic of Iraq)
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To: ffusco
I must agree. I don't see what is gained. Perhaps it has something to do with being "unconfessed".
36 posted on 04/17/2003 1:29:06 PM PDT by stop_fascism
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To: SoothingDave
Anyone can accept Christ as their Savior and Lord.
The POPE has no right to deny one of God's children from receiving communion.

Blair didn't choose to receive the sacrement because he wanted a snack- he believes in Jesus, why does that make him unworthy?

37 posted on 04/17/2003 1:29:13 PM PDT by ffusco ("Essiri sempri la santu fora la chiesa.")
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To: latina4dubya
but i've chosen to take communion anyway

Is being ingracious to your hosts a matter of Protestant piety?

If someone politely requests you respect his ceremonies, why would you proudly spit on his request?

Obviously, no one is policing anything and you were not physically prevented from making a mockery of what we hold sacred. But to imagine someone to be so ignorant as you are is laughable.

SD

38 posted on 04/17/2003 1:29:14 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: Willie Green
I wish the Pope felt as strongly about pedophile priests as he does about Protestant Christians.
39 posted on 04/17/2003 1:29:17 PM PDT by ambrose
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To: SoothingDave
Love and Charity Bump!
40 posted on 04/17/2003 1:30:14 PM PDT by polemikos
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