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Iraqi defeat jolts Russian military
The Christian Science Monitor ^ | April 16, 2003 | Fred Weir

Posted on 04/15/2003 5:52:59 PM PDT by Dubya

Defense and policy experts said last week that modernizing the Army is a top priority.

MOSCOW - In the US's easy defeat of Saddam Hussein's army, Russia sees a lesson for its own conventional forces.

The Iraqi Army - which was cloned from the Red Army in the final decades of the Soviet Union - mounted only a feeble defense before falling apart.

"The key conclusion we must draw from the latest Gulf war is that the obsolete structure of the Russian armed forces has to be urgently changed," says Vladimir Dvorkin, head of the Russian Defense Ministry's official think tank on strategic nuclear policy. "The gap between our capabilities and those of the Americans has been revealed, and it is vast. We are very lucky that Russia has no major enemies at the moment, but the future is impossible to predict, and we must be ready."

The swift victory by mobile, high-tech American forces over heavily armored Iraqi troops dug in to defend large cities like Baghdad has jolted many Russian military planners. "The Iraqi Army was a replica of the Russian Army, and its defeat was not predicted by our generals," says Vitaly Shlykov, a former deputy defense minister of Russia.

Like its Soviet prototype, Iraq's Army was huge but made up mainly of young, poorly trained conscripts. Its battle tactics called for broad frontal warfare, with massed armor and artillery, and a highly centralized command structure. But those forces were trounced in a few days by relatively small numbers of US and British forces, who punched holes in the Iraqi front using precision weapons and seized the country's power centers more rapidly than traditional military thinkers could have imagined. "The military paradigm has changed, and luckily we didn't have to learn that lesson firsthand," says Yevgeny Pashentsev, author of a book on Russian military reform. "The Americans have rewritten the textbook, and every country had better take note."

Last week, the independent Council on Foreign and Defense Policy - a group of top Russian military experts and former policymakers, including Mr. Shlykov - met to assess the implications of the US triumph in Iraq for Russia. Their conclusion: The Kremlin must drop all post-Soviet pretense that Russia remains a superpower, and make rebuilding and redesigning the nation's military forces a top priority. "We cannot afford to postpone this any longer," Boris Nemtsov, head of the liberal Union of Right Forces, told the meeting.

Twelve years after the USSR's collapse, the most unreformed branch of Russian society remains its armed forces. Though its numbers have been halved to about 1.2 million personnel, and its annual budget has dropped to a mere $10 billion, the structure, weaponry, and doctrines of today's Russian military remain those of its Soviet predecessor. Each Russian defense minister since 1991 has pledged sweeping reform, yet more than half of the Army's combat forces remain ill-trained conscripts required to serve for two years for just 100 rubles ($3) a month. Aside from the strategic nuclear forces, no branch of the Russian military has acquired significant quantities of modern weaponry in more than a decade.

According to a Defense Ministry survey in early 2003, cited in the daily Izvestia, more than a third of Russian officers and their families live below the poverty line, and fewer than half of the officers want to remain in the service.

Critics say that military manpower must be at least halved again, and the draft abolished in order to make reform feasible. "We can afford an army comparable to those of France or Britain, but hard decisions must be made," says Pavel Felgenhauer, an independent defense expert. Adequate spending for equipment, training, and payment of professional troops is key, he says.

Others say that Russia also must define a clear post-Soviet security doctrine. "How can we reform our Army when we have not defined the threats it must deal with?" says Mr. Dvorkin. "We must first identify our national interests, then we'll know who our enemies might be."

As the US prepared to invade Iraq, many Russian military experts warned that American forces would come to grief in the streets of Iraqi cities. Some predicted the battle of Baghdad would resemble the Russian Army's two assaults on the Chechen capital of Grozny - in 1995 and again in 2000 - each of which lasted more than a month and cost hundreds of Russian casualties.

Early in the Iraq war, the Russian online newspaper Gazeta.ru reported that two retired Soviet generals may have played a key role in designing Iraq's defenses. The paper published photos of Vladimir Achalov, an expert in urban warfare, and Igor Maltsev, a specialist in air defenses, receiving medals from Iraq's defense minister two weeks before the war began. Russian TV later quoted General Maltsev as saying "the American invaders will be buried in the streets of Baghdad."

Some in Russia's military establishment still appear reluctant to accept the sweeping military verdict in Iraq. "I think American dollars won the war, it was not a military victory," says Gen. Makhmut Gareyev, president of the official Academy of Military Sciences in Moscow. "The Americans bought the Iraqi military leadership with dollars. One can only envy a state that is so rich."

But others are obviously shaken. "Thank God our public has finally begun to discuss the state of the Army," General Vladimir Shamanov, who commanded Russian troops in two Chechnya wars, told a Moscow radio station after the extent of the US-led triumph in Iraq became clear last week. "Maybe our strategic nuclear forces will protect the country for another decade, but then what? A strong Russia is impossible without a strong army."

One bright note for Moscow, however, is a report that Iraqi forces used Russian-made, laser-guided antitank missiles to destroy several Abrams tanks during the US attack. This could boost profits for Russian armsmakers, who are already receiving inquiries from Syria and Iran, according to Shlykov.

The US has complained that Russia supplied Iraq with defense equipment in violation of UN sanctions. "As a result of the Iraq war and accusations of illegal Russian arms deliveries, applications for Russian weapons have soared," Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov said last week.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: iraqifreedom; russia; victory; worldopinion
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Comment #61 Removed by Moderator

To: thoughtomator
"As a result of the Iraq war and accusations of illegal Russian arms deliveries, applications for Russian weapons have soared,"

Brand new GPS jammers, on sale now, 75% off!

62 posted on 04/15/2003 7:11:59 PM PDT by Reeses
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To: Retrofire
Its their culture.

Even if Russia had all the wiz bang gadgetry we did, they would still lose.

Freedom fighters trump Socialist conscripts every time.
63 posted on 04/15/2003 7:16:48 PM PDT by antaresequity (...)
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To: Support Free Republic
Is that a real picture of Daschle using the wrong hand? No joke?
64 posted on 04/15/2003 7:18:46 PM PDT by NewsGal
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To: Beck_isright
Too bad for Putin

He is the big time loser now.

They should have got along with us. We would have helped develope oil and Etc. It would have helped us all.

65 posted on 04/15/2003 7:23:30 PM PDT by Dubya (Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father,but by me)
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To: COURAGE
You can stop posting that photo now.
66 posted on 04/15/2003 7:27:21 PM PDT by The Other Harry
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To: The Other Harry
"Their forces committed suicide by the hundreds.... The battle is very fierce and God made us victorious. The fighting continues."
Mohammed Saeed Sahhaf

67 posted on 04/15/2003 7:31:17 PM PDT by COURAGE
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To: polemikos
Well, Putan was KGB. I think he must have known better.
68 posted on 04/15/2003 7:39:06 PM PDT by Empireoftheatom48 (God bless our troops!!)
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To: governsleastgovernsbest
Do some historical research. Back in the 50's the ChiComs were seriously scouting Siberia and it's mineral riches.....
69 posted on 04/15/2003 8:00:45 PM PDT by Beck_isright ("QUAGMIRE" - French word for "unable to find anyone to surrender to")
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To: governsleastgovernsbest
Call me naive, but it's hard for me to imagine the Chinese having territorial designs on Russia.

The Chinese believe most of all of Siberia should belong to them and they were screwed out of it in an unfair treaty about 100 years ago.

The Chinese belief they should own Siberia is on a par with their belief they should own Taiwan. You just don't hear about it as much.

The Chinese and Soviet Union duked it out in vicious, fairly large scale ground combat over some border areas in the 1960s. There were no reporters there to film it, and both countries suppressed the knowledge that it happened.

70 posted on 04/15/2003 8:25:43 PM PDT by John H K
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To: Dubya
"I wish I knew how to post this picture. It is worth a thousand words."

I wish they wouldn't print pictures like this. You just know that the Muslim world sees this as humiliating to Muslims and further evidence of American arrogance. It doesn't help in the struggle to win hearts and minds.

71 posted on 04/15/2003 8:37:01 PM PDT by etcetera
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To: COURAGE
Baghdad Bob is a passing fad...
72 posted on 04/15/2003 8:54:45 PM PDT by smith288 (Visit my gallery http://www.ejsmithweb.com/fr/hollywood/hollywood.php)
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To: Blueflag
Did you see this?
Twelve years after the USSR's collapse, the most unreformed branch of Russian society remains its armed forces. Though its numbers have been halved to about 1.2 million personnel, and its annual budget has dropped to a mere $10 billion,
Ten bil?

Even if that's a ten, hundred-fold underestimation, either in real or comparative dollars, there's no hope for them, or the rest of the world.

I'm bemused by the constant press salivation at Iraq's twelve billion a year oil revenue... That's about 150 on the Forbes list -- that is, one hundred forty-nine U.S. companies have more revenue than Iraq's oil take -- the better part of the country's entire economy.

A US Empire? No. Dominant? Indeed. There's no comparison.

73 posted on 04/15/2003 9:20:42 PM PDT by nicollo
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To: Retrofire
Russia has lost what...8000 troops now trying to subdue Grozny, a city one TENTH the size of Baghdad? And they did so without fighting under the constraints of world opinion or constant journalistic access.

Very cogent points.

74 posted on 04/15/2003 9:25:20 PM PDT by Diddley (Powell; “The only amount of land we have ever asked for in return is enough to bury our dead".)
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To: Reeses; thoughtomator
"As a result of the Iraq war and accusations of illegal Russian arms deliveries, applications for Russian weapons have soared,"

Brand new GPS jammers, on sale now, 75% off!

They might not be able to fool JDAM's, but if they were cheap enough they could be used to fool the antitheft devices in many new cars.

75 posted on 04/15/2003 9:33:02 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative (Rest in pieces Saddam!)
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To: Reeses; thoughtomator
"As a result of the Iraq war and accusations of illegal Russian arms deliveries, applications for Russian weapons have soared,"

Brand new GPS jammers, on sale now, 75% off!

They might not be able to fool JDAM's, but if they were cheap enough they could be used to fool the antitheft devices in many new cars.

76 posted on 04/15/2003 9:33:02 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative (Rest in pieces Saddam!)
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To: Paleo Conservative
They might not be able to fool JDAM's,+++

I don't get how JDAM may hit GPS jammer if latter moves around? How armorers got its GPS coordinates in real time?

Second moment. When one uses expensive munition and air sorty to take out piece of equipment with cost $200 it mean something.
At least GPS jammers fulfilled the task to compel excessive spending of foe. They inflicts damage to military budget.

77 posted on 04/15/2003 11:39:43 PM PDT by RusIvan
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To: RusIvan
I don't get how JDAM may hit GPS jammer if latter moves around? How armorers got its GPS coordinates in real time?

I didn't hear about large numbers of JDAM's missing their targets. Surely the GPS jammer that was hit was not the only GPS jammer that was used. Also, I haven't heard reports of more than one GPS jammer being hit. Have you? The JDAM has both inertial and GPS guidence capabilities. It also knows that a valid GPS signal should be coming from a satellite orbiting in a polar orbit, not a fixed ground station or even a moving truck or UAV.

78 posted on 04/16/2003 12:07:39 AM PDT by Paleo Conservative (Rest in pieces Saddam!)
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To: John H K
Thanks to all for the history lesson on the rocky history of Sino-Soviet relations.
79 posted on 04/16/2003 4:29:46 AM PDT by governsleastgovernsbest
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To: smith288

Still no reliable evidence on the fate of Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf (M.S.S.)... Iranian newspaper Mardom Salari reports rumors of MSS suicide, but no substantiation.
80 posted on 04/16/2003 8:31:43 AM PDT by COURAGE
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