Two U.S Soldiers Die In Baghdad Grenade Accident

Reuters ^ | 4-14-03

[Unwavering Conservative]

Two U.S. Soldiers Die in Baghdad Grenade Accident

Mon April 14, 2003 02:07 PM ET

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Two U.S. soldiers were killed and two wounded in a grenade accident at a checkpoint south of Baghdad on Monday, military officials said.

"We're not sure how it happened but there was some kind of an accident with a grenade. Two guys were killed and two wounded," a senior officer said.

The soldiers were part of the Air Defense Artillery unit manning the Avenger anti-aircraft stinger systems mounted on Humvees.

Because there is no longer an air threat from Iraq, U.S. forces have begun to use the stingers at roadblocks.

[Onelifetogive]

Aargh! Our casualties in this war would be halved if there were no accidents!

I haven't heard a number for the expected loss of soldiers for a month if we weren't at war. I suspect it would be significant but less than the loss over the past month.

I have heard that our losses in Desert Shield/Storm were actually lower than during non-fighting. The difference being mainly drinking and driving (a favorite past-time of the young and recently liberated from Mom and Dad.)

[Poohbah]

IIRC, they quit doing that because of an incident at Lejeune in 1988. The instructor pulled the pin from the "practice grenade," and nothing happened.

Turns out that it was a LIVE grenade, and the only thing keeping the fuse from igniting was the safety clip.

[harpseal]

Roger that. Midshipmen are so easy to mess arround with they think they are really hot but the training NCO's will give them a whole raft just for chuckles. However I heard about the a live backpack nuke paited the practice color once I was not there but was told it was no sh*t. That could be a sea story or whatever the Army types call them because it came from an Army Master Sgt Special Forces.

[Nefertiti]

Ug.. reading this made me a little sick to my stomach... The last thing we need is another "unfortunate oopsy"..... imagine being the parents or loved ones of these boys and having to be told... 'Well sorry ma'am but your son was just not smart enough to know NOT to play with a live grenade.' And can you hear the liberals once they find out things like this... I can already hear the sounds of feathers being ruffled, and then they start to crow 'This happened because the military hasn't properly trained these men and women.. and on and on...' I am not making light of the subject, this is very upsetting two more young men will not be coming home to their families because of an "avoidable accident" and two others are going to be punished and rightly(but sadly) so...., I also will be praying that in the future such "accidents" will be avoided.. and also for their families.. this must be very hard for them...

God bless and keep our Troops safe...

Nefertiti@-->---

[Nefertiti]

speaking of accidents, I must make a note to myself that in the future if I am going to shrink my font... like I always do.. not to make it bold also.. that makes it very hard to read... sorry everyone..

Nefertiti@-->---

[Poohbah]

The story, as I've heard it, is that the Atomic Energy Commission made (X) of the W-54 Special Atomic Demolition Munition, and that when the W-54 was retired, they managed to account for (X-1) of them.

[Nefertiti]

P.S. (yes I'm back)

Thank you for pinging me to this U.C. please continue to ping me to anything you wish to in the future...... and I know I have a tag line around here somewhere that would be perfect for this...mmmmmmm..AH-HA! there it is...

'See' you around

Nefertiti@-->---

[river rat]

I never trusted or was overly fond of grenades..
Unless you held them to the 2 or 3 count after spoon release....there was enough time to be delivered, received and resent...
Not good!

I made a point of not encouraging the enemy to get close enough for me to hit him with a rock.....I prefered to rock his ass at distance with nothing smaller that 7.62, .50 cal or 106mm recoiless...

I was always a little suspicious of the dudes that hung grenades like christmas decorations on their gear.....especially the clowns that thought is wise to partially pre-straighen the pins to allow "easier" extraction.... Walking time bombs, accidents just waiting to happen..

If I'm not mistaken -- that is how the former congressman from Georgia lost his legs --- while boarding a chopper...
grenada came loose --- pin slipped out ---- boom.

But this aside ---- I do NOT regard the grenade as an appropriate weapon to be carrying to run checks at crowded checkpoints...
A grenade give a "shooter" or "sapper" too much time...and the friendlies have to "duck"....taking their eyes off the outlaw.
Suspects should be stopped at distance, and each friendly forward should be covered from the rear and side by at least two men with crossing fields of fire.

Semper Fi

[harpseal]

Grenades do have their uses. An option that we came up with was trimming the fuses to three seconds exactly so that one threw it with the spoon oheld on by the hand. They were not my favorite tool either but they were an exellent means of cleraing the entrance to a tunnel. Personally, I preffered a claymore for up cose work against a group.

[HairOfTheDog]

Accidents happen when human beings are involved. Each one individually could be avoided with forethought, but we will always err.

Prayer for their families.

[harpseal]

Well the W-54 had a different operational and practice configuration. As wierd as that sounds that I do know is true. As I heard it later the AEC eventually got the practice painted munition back. However in the interim a group of officers had one of these in a room of big wigs and was about to go through everything to set it off with no time delay when a Sgt major noticed the extra lever and terminated the demo for the flag officers and politidiots in the room. he was chewed out by the bird colonel in the room and then he took his pocket knife out and scrapped the paint off enough so that they could see it was real.

If this accident had happened the results would have been all over the evening news with Walter Cronkite.

[river rat]

C4 alone, or in a bucket of rocks worked just fine for clearing entrances....
And it could be fired off from a distance -- with all suspected ground openings covered...


No argument...Claymores were nice....but large and heavy..

Semper Fi

[nicmarlo]

We must keep these soldiers and their families in our prayers.

Yes; in some respects, this next part will be more dangerous....there will continue to be snipers, and accidents....and, sadly, the prolonged duration in Iraq will increase the likelihood of both.

[Travis McGee]

I never played with grenades for real like you gents, but some old frogmen told me the only grenades they liked were the 40mm kind you aim and shoot at a distance. Something about hand tossed frags bouncing off vines and branches for a return trip to the thrower. Not good.

But for MOUT and caves, bunkers etc I guess you can't get around it, you need frags. And in my book one character carries one in his coat pocket as an arrest preventative.

[Squantos]

Done it too....used the old practice grenade with the little Black Powder training charge,...painted up green with DODIC ect ect on the stenciling and was teaching the class "indoors" in a class room. While teaching the need to hold the grenade close to ones chest when pulling the pin. I held it improperly (per the instruction) and pulled the pin as I "accidently" slung/dropped the grenade into a trash can in the corner of the class room. Then as I walked away from the trash can to the other side of the class explaining why that was the improper way to ............KaBoom !

Attention getter and Latrine Break all in one as pucker factor remained high the rest of the day !

Stay Safe !!

[river rat]

Don't laugh....but this is the M79 which was available in the early sixties.... Not pretty or fancy...but effective... IF you could convince some grunt to carry it with the huge M-406 rounds...

---

"BLOOPER" THE M-79 GRENADE LAUNCHER:

This weapon first appeared during the Vietnam war and closely resembled a large bore, single barrel, sawn-off shotgun. The first M79 Grenade launchers were delivered to the US Army in 1961.

The M79 was designed as a close support weapon for the infantry, and was intended to bridge the gap between the maximum throwing distance of a hand grenade, and the lowest range of supporting mortar fire. An area of between 50 and 300 meters.

The M79 was a single shot, shoulder fired, break-barrel loading weapon which fired a spherical 40mm diameter grenade. The M-406 40mm HE grenades fired from the M79 traveled at a muzzle velocity of 75 meters per second, and contained enough explosive within a steel casing that upon impact with the target would produce over 300 fragments at 1,524 meters per second within a lethal radius of up to 5 meters (?). Stabilised in flight by the spin imparted on it by the rifled barrel the grenade rotated at 3,700rpm, this in turn after 15 meters(?) of flight armed the grenade.


For close range fighting the Army came up with two types of M79 rounds. The first was a flechette round which housed approx 45 small darts in a plastic casing, these rounds were issued on an experimental basis. Later this round was replaced by the M-576 buckshot round. This round contained twenty-seven 00 buckshot which on firing was carried down the barrel in a 40mm plastic sabot, which slowed down in flight so the pellets could travel in their forward direction un-aided. The M79 could also fire smoke grenades, CS gas, and flares.

The M79 had a large flip up sight situated half way down the barrel, with a basic leaf foresight fixed at the end of the barrel. The rear sight was calibrated up to 375 meters in 25 meter intervals. In the hands of a good experienced Grenadier the M79 was highly accurate up to 200 meters. Later in the war the M79 was superseded by the M203 40mm launcher which was fixed beneath the foregrip of the M16 rifle.

M79 Grenade Launcher:

System of operation
Single shot, break barrel.

Caliber
40mm

Length
737mm

Weight (loaded)
3Kg

Length of barrel
355mm

Max range
400 meters

Muzzle Velocity
75 meters per second.

---

[Poohbah]

If it was a "practice" W-54, it wasn't a W-54, it was the Army equivalent of a "training shape."

Besides, the thing supposedly had a Permissive Action Link.

[TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig]

In the Navy we always had a "summary of mishaps" every Monday that came from the Desron/destroyer squadron and I called the summary of dumbshits.

Like the guy who was a duty master at arms who decided to lock both halves of a set of handcuffs on one hand and managed to put the keyholes facing eachother. Then he tried to use a pneumatic grinder to cut them off. Ouch.

These guys could have been on the all time summary of dumshits.

[Poohbah]

I was in the USMC. We saw that message, too.

My favorite one was the most common line following most of the incident summaries: "Alcohol believed to be involved."