Israeli Military Amazed, "Jealous" At U.S. War Against Iraq

World Tribune.com ^ | 04/14/2003 | Special to World Tribune

[Dirk McQuickly]

TEL AVIV — Israeli defense officials and military commanders have expressed amazement over the capture of one of the largest and most powerful Arab countries by what they say amounted to fewer than three U.S. Army divisions.

The officials said the U.S. strategy of avoiding enemy troop concentrations as well as exploiting combat air supremacy comprises methods far more advanced than those employed by the Israeli military.

"This has been a very strange and unprecedented war and it will take us awhile to learn what took place," Yuval Steinetz, chairman of the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, said. "We will have to learn from this war and draw the conclusions."

"I am jealous of them [U.S. military]," Maj. Gen. Dan Harel, head of the Israel military's C4 directorate, said. "They have advanced in areas that we were leading in only a few years ago. They have the ability to put everything together in command and control. Our navy and air force have systems. but we have to integrate them."

Officials and military commanders agreed that the U.S. war in Iraq overshadowed the 1967 Israeli victory over four Arab countries, including Iraq. They said the United States sustained about 100 casualties in three weeks of fighting that resulted in the capture of Baghdad and most Iraqi cities. In contrast, about 600 Israeli soldiers were killed in the six days of the 1967 war, most of them in the ground battle with Egypt in the Sinai Peninsula.

[Krodg]

As a Christian I would say that they were inspired by God.

As a fellow Christian, I agree.

from the article....

They have the ability to put everything together in command and control.

We have the ability because we have a leader in command who knows who is in control.

[ChadGore]

Re: I didn't get the name of the book he referred to, but the gist is responding so quickly that you get inside the enemies decision cycle, thus paralyzing them.

I'm sure there are many people who know this better then me, but the guys name is "40 Second Boyd". While an instructor in the airforce he had a standing "40-40" bet with any pilot from any country. Boyd would start from a position of disadvantage and have to beet you in 40 seconds, or you got 40 bucks. He never lost.

He gave a very very detailed briefing in 1986 (called PATTERNS OF CONFLICT http://www.d-n-i.net/boyd/pdf/poc.pdf big file, but a great read, check the illustrations) that discribed his principle of getting inside the other guys decision loop in great detail.

I remember Collin Powell was asked in the days just after 911 "How will we define victory?" in this war on terrorism and he replyed "Victory will be when we know everything they know", and isn't that the essence of every defeat ?

[kms61]

Which will remain true for the officers and senior NCO's for years to come. However, it's important to remember that there's ALWAYS going to be a high turnover in the junior enlisted ranks; Most of these guys will serve one or two hitches and move on to the next stage in their lives.

So unless we engage in ongoing warfare for the forseeable future (which I can't imagine any sane person would welcome), in the next conflict most of the troops will again be seeing combat for the first time. Thus the premium on training that's as hard and realistic as you can make it.

That, along with our technological edge, is what I think sets our military apart.

[kms61]

Good point. Another is that right now we're the only ones who can afford some of this gee whiz stuff. But the cost of technology tends to go down over time. At some point our potential adversaries WILL be able to afford the toys we have now. We'll have to stay ahead of the curve without bankrupting the economy with stuff we don't need. It's a fine line and I don't envy the people who will have to make those decisions.

[Ichneumon]

They have become cultures of "honor"... their so-called "honor" is all they have. This is why they are constantly referencing "saving face" when dealing with others...they have nothing else.

...and why you'll see the phrase "humiliation" pop up so often in Arab articles explaning why they "have" to wage jihad and throw suicide bombers at pizza parlors full of teens.

[kms61]

Which makes it the perfect terrorist weapon. It's naive to think that Al Qaeda or some other group won't get hold of this eventually. It's impractical to shield every single civilian electronic device....how do you defend against something like that?

Heck, the way tecnhology progresses, I wouldn't be surprised to find plans for this stuff on the internet some day in the not too distant future. A couple of malicious teenagers driving around with a case of beer and a homemade EMP gun could do a whole lot of damage without even breaking a sweat.

[Cuttnhorse]

Victor Davis Hanson's book is great because in it he ties in culture and how it dictates how wars and battles are fought, and has, since the Greek's victory over the Persians at Salamis in 480 BC. Hanson doesn't just describe battles but rather explains in detail the culture of the time and how culture influenced how battles were fought.

He explains how Western global dominance wasn't the result of geography, but the way the West learned to kill its enemies.

As tens of thousands of "elite" Iraqi combatants would tell you, if they could, the west has developed a knack for killing.

[ChadGore]

re: Thanks Col Boyd. You were right; it worked. You saved a lot of lives.

Amen !

[HighRoadToChina]

BUMP!

[Walkin Man]

Wow! That is high praise from one of the greatest military force in the world!

[Cuttnhorse]

Extracts from Hanson’s book:

Were they Merchant Barges? The Ottoman admiral, Muezzinzade Ali Pasha, had never seen anything like the six bizarre ships floating a few hundred yards in front of his attacking galleys.

Perhaps they were some sort of supply vessels? Clearly, they were both new and huge- and drifting right toward his flagship, the Sultana!

Most of the Christian observers believed that a third of the Ottoman armada was scattered, disabled, or sunk before the battle proper between galleys had even commenced. As many as 10,000 Turkish seamen were thrown into the sea when their galleys were obliterated in thirty minutes of firing from just four European ships.

Ali Pasha had seen in these strange galleasses some glimpses of the future of naval warfare, and it rested not with rams, boarders, or rowers, but with mass-produced iron cannon, high decks, and large vessels.

Shock and Awe at Lepanto, October 7, 1571

[ChadGore]

Here's an Interesting quote from Abdul Nasser, the leader of Egypt back in spring of 1967. This was said in the opening moments of the war, and is very telling about just how well Israel did.

The armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon are poised on the borders of Israel...to face the challenge, while standing behind us are the armies of Iraq, Algeria, Kuwait, Sudan and the whole Arab nation. This act will astound the world. Today they will know that the Arabs are arranged for battle, the critical hour has arrived. We have reached the stage of serious action and not declarations.

The funny thing ? He wasn't BSing. The armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Algeria, Kuwait, and Sudan were indeed lined up to fight.

That they lost soooo badly and sooo quickly makes me glad Israel is on our side :)

[Tao Yin]

'Cowboys and Arabs'

That's too funny, and the first time I've snarfed in ages. Thanks!

[Mark Felton]

The Iraqi's had much of the equipment they needed to create a quagmire.

The Kornets they had could have been effective for mobility kills +.

Each 3 man squad could have a Ak-47's and flare guns.

Each squad could operate freely within a zone and prepare 6-12 hiding holes throughout the zone.

There would be forward holes within firing range of the main roads and then there would be fall back holes to which they would run as soon as they've made their shot.

They would fight at night. 2 of the men would fire flares near the foreground by the armor columns. They would fire from a seprate location from the Kornet shooter. As soon as the flares flare up, within 5-10 seconds, then the Kornet shooter lets it rip.

From the armor point of view they see 3 different shots from 3 very separate locations; 1 flare, 2 flare, 3 anti-tank.

All 3 haul ass back to the fall back hole.

The flares have the effect of momentarily "blinding" both the FLIR's and the low-light goggles. The flares cause the auto gain control on the imagers to compensate by forcing the gain down. Thus the background becomes darker and the shooters in the background can get their shots off and make their escape.

It could take quite some time for the armor guys to manually adjust their imagers.

An ideal approach would be be to "swarm" the line of armor with multiple teams and present no fixed "front" for the armor to attack. Each firing location would immediately move, trying to stay behind cover the whole while. In urban areas this would be highly effective and was the tactic most feared by US forces.

[Mark Felton]

"They aren't; they're going to head to the subways, to basements, or south away from Seoul (and the traffic problems thus caused are a headache themselves, of course.)"

Every month in Seoul they drill on evacuating streets and seeking shelter. When the siren goes off the streets are cleared of cars and traffic within minutes. They free up all the main streets so military forces can quickly move through.

I was standing in the middle of Itaewon once (downtown Seoul) and the sirens went off. The people and the cars just evaporated. Police cars and other military vehicles went zooming back and forth. It was quite impressive.

[Al B.]

FYI -- high praise coming from these guys.

[ApesForEvolution]

One more time: Why hasn't Israel already offed the little rat? Just answer the question or let's go our ways.

[sauropod]

Hmmm.... You know about K-kills?

[Cuttnhorse]

Thankfully the Iraqis do not have your imagination...or I suspect, bravery.
What you suggest was my worry about how this might go, execpt for one thing...these are not brave people and the masses were not going to fall on a sword for the likes of Hussein.
Conscripted armies are not the best way to go.