Paris archbishop "shocked" by prayers for US victory in Iraq

Agence France-Presse (AFP) ^ | 4-14-03

[Oldeconomybuyer]

PARIS, April 14 (AFP) - Paris Archbishop Jean-Marie Lustiger was "shocked" by US President George W. Bush's calls for prayers for a US victory in the Iraq war.

"That a people in distress prays to God can be understood," the cardinal said on television late Sunday. "But for the United States, that shocks me."

Lustiger went on: "Bush is reacting like everyone reacts in these cases. He's getting people to pray for United States victory. I don't agree with this. The principle of this prayer is 'who's not for us is against us'," while "the principle of prayer for peace is to break the infernal circle of hatred."

[Roughneck]

Before y'all start your Catholic bashing for the day you should realize that there are 325,000 active duty Catholics in the US military, fully 30% of the military is Catholic. We have and always will do more than our share of fighting for this country. How much have the other denominations done?


So, do those 325,000 support the pedophile pope? The pope that kissed the Koran? Can you proove it if ya say they do? Furthermore, RELIGION has nothing to do with faith and believing in GOD. So, are you counting the crusades when you say cathiolics do more than any other religion?

Catholics are NOT morally superior than anyone else, especially in light of the IMMORAL way the church, its poop, and its priests have been acting.

As a catholic, I say the poop is irrelevant and so is the catholic church unless it gets out of the SIN it is committing now.

[McGavin999]

STFU france, nobody cares what any of you degenerates thinks.

[martianagent]

How about a prayer for an intelligent bishop for Paris?

[Arthur McGowan]

What does that have to do with the corruption at the top of the Catholic church?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

It shows how irrelevant it is.

[weikel]

This is an example of one Bishop offering his opinion. He is not speaking for the entire Church.

Who appointed him and who can fire him?

[Buggman]

This is an example of one Bishop offering his opinion. He is not speaking for the entire Church.

You know, given how often good, conservative Catholics on this forum have to explain that this or that liberal RCC official doesn't speak for the whole church, could you explain to this poor, dumb Evangelical Protestant one more time exactly how only the RCC fulfills Jesus' prayer "that they may all be one, even as We [the Father and the Son] are One"?

And don't get off on your "Catholic basher!" rant again. I happen to love the individual Catholics I know a great deal. They are, without exception (even the liberal ones) some of the nicest people I know. Of course, so are the individual Muslims that I know, but that doesn't keep me from saying that Islam itself is a false religion and that Allah is not just another name for Jehovah.

Neither does loving the Catholic laity keep me from the perfectly frank and (IMHO) correct view that the greater part of the Catholic heirarchy, particularly those of bishop-level and above, are corrupt as hell (pun intended).

Another question--actually, a pair of questions: First, is not a belief in whether and how one should pray for America's victory a matter of faith? Is not the question of whether this (or any other) war is a just war a matter of morals? If the Roman heirarchy, including even the Pope, has stood against us on this--and many of the Catholics on this forum have admitted that it has done so--are we wrong, or is the Holy See wrong on this matter of faith and morals?

It isn't Catholic-bashing to ask these questions, nor is it to criticize the Roman Church (anymore than it is Protestant-bashing to criticize the excesses of most televangelists), and I'd like some honest answers from someone with the authority to speak for your denomination so that I can hold you (as a group, not you personally) to those answers. Somehow, I don't think I'll get them.

Yours in Truth,

[Beck_isright]

Touche.

[TopQuark]

When the terrorists were perfecting their methods over three decades of hijacking and murder in Europe --- was he speaking up to stop the "cycle of violence?"

Nah, it's only anti-Westernism and anti-Americanism, thinly disguised. Much like many anti-Semites now find it fashionable to hide behind "anti-Israelism."

The Archbishop of Canterbury is also only slightly left of Putin and Gorbachev. It is scary: when the church undermines the western values, who is going to preserve them?

[Petronski]

144:1 [A Psalm] of David. Blessed [be] the LORD my strength, who
teacheth my hands to war, [and] my fingers to fight;
144:2 My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my
deliverer; my shield, and [he] in whom I trust; who subdueth my
people under me.

[Leatherneck_MT]

IS Being??

They HAVE been for many many years now.

Semper Fi

[Paul_B]

This is an example of one Bishop offering his opinion. He is not speaking for the entire Church.

There has been an awful lot of just such idolizing of peace as an absolute virtue, in flat contradiction to a balanced reading of scripture, even at the very highest levels of the RCC. That is altogether noteworthy, and taking note of it does not automatically constitute prejudice.

[DeathfromBelow]

Maybe that is why the French keep surrendering and losing, they can't even get their Archbishops to pray for them.

[browardchad]

The Catholic bashing is in very poor taste.

I disagree, and I'm Catholic. This isn't about the laity, it's about the hierarchy of the Catholic Church, which apparently doesn't realize the hole they have dug for themselves, and so they keep digging.

How can the Catholic Church reconcile the abuse, torture and starvation of the Iraqis with its continued opposition to the war? Nancy Pelosi and her ilk are political animals, and while they are reprehensible, they have no moral stature. But how can the representatives of Christ's church, who are sworn to care for the poor, sick and dying -- for the very souls of men -- justify defending the physical and moral depravity of the Iraqi leadership, in the name of peace?

[CyberAnt]

"being overrun"

Excuse me ... the church was overrun years ago and I pray GOD will rescue them.

[TheMole]

An intelligent bishop for Paris? Or at least one learned enough to have ever heard of The Battle Hymn of the Republic, so he wouldn't be "shocked" at prayers for American victory. I'll pray for that.

[mywholebodyisaweapon]

Sorry not to have responded sooner, Chad. I've been out for awhile.

You make a good point. The protestant seminaries are almost all very politically liberal, too. The Presbyterian Layman is a publication that the rank-and-file USA church members use to provide an alternative to the denomination-led propaganda.

I suspect that the sorts of scandals that have plagued the catholic priesthood are also very common among many different denominations, too. Remember Jimmy Swagggert!

[wgeorge2001]

"Your ignorant rant, misspellings included, can be aired out and used to fertilize the lawn."

Nah. I still have to use cow and chicken poop.Someday, I may download spell check.
You a catholic? Do you believe this crazy man?

[NordP]

"Historically, whenever the Pharisees have seen something Holy - they have felt the need to speak out against it.

Hubby says that's why that Muslim claric wants a "State of Islam" in Iraq, now....--makes sense, doesn't it???