Question About Firearm Selection for Home Defense (VANITY)

vanity | April 13, 2003 | Jim Noble

[Jim Noble]

I have been trying to select a home defense firearm. I have handled and fired .38 special, .357 Magnum, and .45 ACP handguns, and 12-gauge and 20-gauge shotguns, but I'm not (yet) an experienced shooter.

I also have small kids at home.

I like the shotgun option, but have 2 concerns. 1) Do I like it because blowing away bad guys with a shotgun looks cool in the movies? (i.e., is this as viable an option as a handgun). 2) Can a bad guy with a handgun kill me before he is in lethal range of my shotgun?

Thanks in advance to all the experienced shooters here.

[Kadric]

I'm going to throw one that hasn't been mentioned by anyone else. AR-15 preferred 1-12 rifling loaded with 55 grain loads. The sheet rock will caused the bullet to start tumbling and if it is not already get the wall to the kids rooms filled with insulation. The police have found that this load in most cases will not penetrate 2 layers of sheet rock with insulation between, normal wall.

First weapon I would suggest a 4-6” .357 mag loaded with magsafe ammo if neither you or your wife are use to semi autos, less to go wrong with them. also at least 3 speed loaders.

Quite a few are talking about shotguns but there are a few myths with them.
1. You can’t miss. Standard shot spread is 1” per yard.
2. It will not penetrate the walls. Try this one some time on your own.
On the plus side. You shoot someone with a normal shotgun and you come off in court looking better. This doesn’t work as well with a police/military style.

[PistolPaknMama]

bump for follow up

[algol]

Okay, I see your point. No apology necessary.

Personally I'd sooner go with one fewer rounds and leave the weapon stored with an empty chamber (safety reasons), but other people's mileage may vary. I guess I evaluate the risk of taking a moment to chamber a round, and having one fewer round in the weapon, as lower than the risk of leaving a weapon around that's ready to fire.

[Kadric]

As far as I can tell you can own one. Maryland Code Article 27 481C(b)(2) is the controlling regulation.

[Kadric]

Getting the LEO signoff can be real fun though. You must have it before the Ex-BATF will approve the paper work.

[Tunehead54]

In my case completely different from your. No children, no close neighbors, house located in a manner that favors hold in one room. Nothing in the rest of the house is worth my wife's or my life. If they attempt coming through the bedroom door this place will look like swiss cheese. From the master bedroom shooting straight through the house you hit a wooded hill. At hand 1911 .45, AK-47, FAL, wife has Hi-power, AR-15, and a semi-auto UZI carbine. 3 mags for each pistol and at least 6 for each of the long guns. Have a Chow by the front door, a Rott by the back and 4 other dogs that run loose on the property.

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I was going to drop by but I think I'll just FReepmail you instead! ;)

[The Wizard]

pistol grip 12 gauge

[TheSpottedOwl]

My son and I were discussing home defense. When I was married to their father, the kids used a 22 rifle. He had a 12 gauge shotgun, also. I gave up going shooting years before because the recoil knocked me on my rear, even with a sofa pillow in my shirt. I've also tried to shoot a 1915 Turkish Mauser. Fun. I wasn't exactly taught how to shoot well.

My problem is that I can't afford the guns you all are talking about. How do you take WWI or WWII surplus and make it work for you? I don't worry about burgulars (don't ask), we live in an established housing tract with houses close together. Still, with everything going on these days, I'd feel better having something besides ingredients for molitov cocktails.

Anyway, thank you all for a very informative view on weapons and using them around children and child safety.

[The Wizard]

and keep in mind before you go blowing anyone away, the police like to see you backed up all the way with no other recourse before you pull the trigger....that is, in the back of the last room and no phone......then you walk

[RANGERAIRBORNE]

"2) Can a bad guy with a handgun kill me before he is in lethal range of my shotgun?

Good grief- just HOW BIG is your house? Unless you have a clear shot across the living room of more than 50 or 60 yards, I wouldn't worry about range at all. In fact , if an intruder is THAT far from you, you would be well-advised not to shoot, anyway- because a claimm of self-defense might not hold up in most States.

00 buckshot in a 12 gauge pump shotgun is the answer to many of lifes problems...

[Physicist]

1) It's easier to disable someone with a shotgun than with a handgun.

2) It's harder to kill someone accidentally with a shotgun than with a handgun. A shotgun blast won't penetrate the walls of your house, but a bullet often will.

[punster]

"1) Do I like it because blowing away bad guys with a shotgun looks cool in the movies? (i.e., is this as viable an option as a handgun). 2) Can a bad guy with a handgun kill me before he is in lethal range of my shotgun?"

A shotgun is a lot more potent weapon. It is also easier to hit with, provided you do aim it (at least bring the front bead onto the target).

Your second question is harder to answer, simply because there are more variables. If you recognise the grimness of the situation and do not hesitate to shoot, it is unlikely that the criminal will get off a shot. But, if you are hesitant, it is very likely that he will get off a shot.

[Kadric]

First bit of advise get a Type 3 FFL. $30.00 for 3 years, allows you to order direct for the C&R firearms.

Cheapest route.
Handgun. CZ52 7.62x25 Tokarev $125.00
Rifle lite Yugo SKS 7.62x39 $100-200
Rifle heavy Yugo M-48A 8mm Mauser $100-125
Rifle heavy M-44 Mosin 7.62x54R $45-89

[Terabitten]

A huge disadvantage to the tactical flashlight is that the bad guy can potentially see you before you see them. This is why I don't use one.

Unless you live in a cave, very few houses are completely dark, even on moonless nights. Nightlights, digital alarm clocks, and the like tend to provide at least *some* illumination.

The home defender has another distinct advantage over the home invader - the defender is intimately familiar with the layout of the house. Example: home defender knows he should be able to see the glow from the digital microwave clock in the kitchen from his current location, say, in the hallway. If he can't see the glow, he knows where to look to detect the target. That kind of intimated, detailed knowledge goes a long way to detecting and isolating the threat, and then removing it.

Some basic low-light shooting practice doesn't hurt either.

[merak]

Shotgun barrels must by law be a certain length, making them unweildy for using indoors. A pistol wants to be simple and powerful enough to disable an adversary, indicating at least a 357 magnum revolver of some sort. Taurus makes a 5-shot 41 magnum stainless revolver with a four inch barrel and factory porting which is easy to shoot, packs a major-league punch, and could be used as a carry pistol if it came to it, thus fulfilling more than one role. I've seen this pistol for just under $400 at gunshows.

[CurlyDave]

I use 00 buck loaded with #4 shot

That is one of the most firearm-ignorant statements I have ever read.

[RANGERAIRBORNE]

"Add a mini-mag light that affixes to the top of the gun and is triggered by a pressure switch on the fore-end grip."

Be aware that you are only going to get ONE shot with the light working- the recoil will break the bulb filament, or the bulb itself. BTW, there are some ultra-bright flashlights on the market now that will absolutely blind anyone foolish enough to be dark-adapted and looking your direction when you push on the endcap (they are like a magnesium flare going off right in front of your eyes) You, of course would close your eyes and look away quickly, so as to retain some useful vision.

These are very spendy, though- $200.00 to almost $400.00, depending on just how big you want to go. They may be an excellent choice for a woman who has to traverse a dark parking lot or garage, and is not armed for some reason.

My wife is getting one for her birthday- she is not allowed to be armed at work, or to have "weapons" in the car. A flashlight looks harmless enough, though. I keep (besides my gun) a 4 D-cell MAGLIGHT on the floor next to my head. Even if the light should fail, it makes an excellent club (hold it by the forend; take a 20-minute lesson in effective use of the short club- it is good for a lot more than an overhand strike, and can easily be lethal).

[TheSpottedOwl]

First bit of advise get a Type 3 FFL. $30.00 for 3 years, allows you to order direct for the C&R firearms.

Oh boy. What is an FFL? Is it a permit? I live in Kalifornistan. Also, do you know how bad the recoil is on those rifles you listed? MY 15 yr old son wants to know where you buy guns like that. FYI:This house is old and the walls are plaster.

[SBprone]

Every weapon is a compromise. Every weapon has its drawbacks. Some have mentioned some truly goofy choices such as a .223 rifle. Do you know what .223 muzzle blast is like indoors? I can tell you that it's unpleasant even with ear protection. Without protection your hearing loss might be permanent!

The recommendations for repeating shotguns should also be taken with a grain of salt because when you read the books written by shotgun fighting experts you will find that the shotgun is a fairly specialized piece of fighting equipment, with a number of considerations that must be learned and made a part of your home defense protocol.

Learning is the key to home defense. The layout of your house and the points of entry in relation to those you must protect is of vital importance in determining how you will arm yourself and how you will respond to a threat. Get some home-defense training from an expert and you will be better qualified to choose your own weapons and defense procedures than any of the folks advising you here.

My personal choice in a Marlin Camp Carbine chambered in .45ACP. It suits my needs well but your needs may be different. If you have to defend yourself from behind a barricade a pump shotgun like a Rem 870 may actually be a poor choice. In other situations it may be an excellent choice, providing that you are sufficiently trained so as to not short-stroke the weapon. If you don't know what I'm talking about then you need to get some training so that you do.

Become your own expert.

[RANGERAIRBORNE]

"I don't worry about burgulars (don't ask), we live in an established housing tract with houses close together."

That is false confidence, unless I have misinterpreted your statement. Burglars, especially the most dangerous ones who are likely to be violent, don't really care how close together the houses are, or how long your subdivision has been established. In fact, they often don't even care whether you are at home or not, or if you have a dog.

Perhaps you would do better to buy a .410 shotgun- that is STILL equivalent to a .41 Caliber pistol, considered quite adequate by a lot of Western LEO's. But you have to be trained until you are confident in it, and you MUST be willing to use it. If not, it (or any other weapon) will be taken away from you and used against you. That is why a lot of police do not recommend that citizens arm themselves for home protection- only a certain percentage actually have the moxie to shoot an intruder. (That percentage varies geographically, I think).