Russian organization was training Iraqi spies, documents show (more info from Iraqi documents)

San Francisco Chronicle ^ | April 13, 2003 | Robert Collier and Bill Wallace

[FairOpinion]

A Moscow-based organization was training Iraqi intelligence agents as recently as last September -- at the same time Russia was resisting the Bush administration's push for a tough stand against Saddam Hussein's regime, Iraqi documents discovered by The Chronicle show.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

I like that indexing summary!

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Got some more interesting Iraq / Russian stuff here!

[tomahawk]

Russia needs to be punished.

No WTO membership.

No Russian oil firms in liberated Iraq.

[L`enn]

We , perhaps, send Russia a thank you card. That "wonderful" training helped the Saddam-ites SOOOO much!

[Mr.Clark]

This is the hidden story of this whole war. While the elite press likes to bestow upon France and Russia the awards of moral superiority, these two nations are absolutely corrupt. Russia has supported Saddam and his regime of terror with weapons, training, and everything else you can imagine. At the same time, Russia is pursuing a genocidal campaign in Chechnya. They have refused to let the UN or the Red Cross into the area. France poured billions of dollars into that fascist nightmare, even when they knew the money was not getting to the Iraqi people. These are the worlds moral "heavyweights". What a joke.

[FairOpinion]

Another article, actually written before these latest finds, says:

"Of course, the USSR was interested in creating outposts of its influence in the Middle East. It cooperated very actively with special services of the Iraqi regime, the regime of Saddam Hussein. Let's say, it is not a secret that Evgenij Primakov (former high-ranking KGB officer, Russian prime minister in 1998) was very actively involved in these activities. However, there is nothing unique. The battle of different interests was underway there and this battle is still underway now," Orlov says.

"I am convinced that there are many documents that are still secret [in Iraqi archives] -- details of cooperation between many other countries and Iraq, and the links that [Saddam's] Baath party had in the world -- all this is very interesting for Russian special services and for special services of many other countries. I think that now there goes a very tense fight for the access to these archives," Orlov says.

Well-known Russian defense analyst Pavel Felgenhauer disagrees. He says Russia's opposition to the war in Iraq may have been fueled not only by political considerations but also by fears that the real extent of Russian cooperation with Hussein's regime would be disclosed.

He tells RFE/RL that a source in the Russian ministry of foreign affairs, whom he declines to identify, says the Russian military actively and illegally cooperated with the Hussein regime.

http://www.rferl.org/nca/features/2003/04/10042003154305.asp

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

As I said, I am getting more convinced that the Saddam regime was Russia's puppet government and they were getting ready for the time, when Saddam, therefore Russia would control the ME. The easy way Iraq fell, also makes more sense with this assumption. That is a very interesting speculation.

But it makes sense!

[TigerLikesRooster]

Re #12

The easy way Iraq fell, also makes more sense with this assumption.

I beg to differ here. The reason Iraq fell so easily was because Saddam ruled only by mind-numbing fear. He did not have real charisma, which could inspire people. There was no patriotic ferver around which Iraqis can rally around, even if they hated Saddam.

It should be also considered that Iraq population is basically war-weary.

Incidentally, these two components, mind-numbing fear and war-weariness, also contributed to the swift downfall of Taliban regime in Afghan.

[FairOpinion]

"No Russian oil firms in liberated Iraq. "

---

Well, Russia is already angling for that. Do they really think we are that stupid? I hope Bush won't give in. They want to "cooperate" while they are publicly bashing us, and trying to stick another knife in our back.

From the Washington Times:

Putin offers help with postwar Iraq

http://www.washtimes.com/world/20030412-31465608.htm

ST. PETERSBURG — President Vladimir Putin yesterday signaled Russia was ready to cooperate with U.S.-led coalition forces on reconstruction, saying Moscow would consider writing off Iraq's debts.
Mr. Putin also welcomed the fall of Saddam Hussein, but he repeated his criticisms of the U.S.-led war in Iraq, calling it illegitimate and a threat to international law.

[FairOpinion]

I don't think our opinions are inconsistent, they could both be true.

Saddam was a figurehead, and his Russian-trained security police was what kept people in line, but when the US coalition forces were coming, that wasn't enough to get them to fight.

I venture to guess that the "training" entailed more than "surveillance techniques" and some such, Russia may well have been planting double agents into Iraq, who were reporting to Russia.

[FairOpinion]

"Now Russia's gamble failed."

---

Spectacularly, I might add. It serves them right.

[antaresequity]

Bush: " What the hell were you thinking Vladimir ?

Putin: " Ooops"

Bush: " Im headed to Damascus, and if you want to come to my next BBQ in Crawford I strongly suggest you sit on your hands and shut the fug up"

[FairOpinion]

I just found another article which sheds more light.

I think until know we had all these dots, but couldn't see the picture, but now that we got these few latest pieces of information, all of a sudden the jigsaw puzzle fits.

Here is more on the motivation why Russia wanted to keep us out of Iraq.

Fall of Baghdad bad news for Russian economy: experts
http://www.spacewar.com/2003/030410154818.0npby67g.html

The fall of Baghdad is bad news for the Russian economy which is likely to lose out on oil investments in Saddam Hussein's Iraq and see the price of crude fall, delivering a blow to oil-dependant growth, experts said Thursday.

Russia's oil giants which maintained long-standing ties with Iraq fear they may be marginalised after a US-led war in which their country took no part, with waning prospects of obtaining crumbs from the table of what is already being seen as a postwar carve-up.

Russian oil companies have invested more than one billion dollars (euros) over the past seven years in Iraq's vast oil reserves -- second only to those of Saudi Arabia -- but they risk exclusion from post-war contracts because of Russia's fierce opposition to the US-British war.

With oil accounting for a substantial proportion of export sales, Russia's budget and its economic growth are closely linked to oil prices, and the International Monetary Fund on Wednesday revised substantially downwards, from 4.0 to 4.0 percent, its estimate for Russia's economic growth for 2003.

The sudden shortfall in revenues could cause the economy to falter momentarily, although in the long term it was always bound to face competition from Iraqi oil.

[MonroeDNA]

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BTW, did you know that the founder of this site is in a wheelchair (sorry Jim; I know you think it doesn't make a r*ts a$$ difference. Hey, some folks out there need to come down a peg, like I have.).

Think of it! In the darkest days of the Clinton Administration, there was a lone internet site where people with integrity, brains, and sheer gumption could discuss the dangers faced by the US. Not on CNN, for sure.

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[Orion78]

"The failure of US policy makers to comprehend the veiled aggressiveness and hostility towards the United States inherent in Sino-Russian strategy and the belief that the political and economic reforms in Russia and the partial introduction of capitalism in China have foreshadowed these countries' development into real democracies, have eroded the effectiveness of US policies in the foreign affairs, defence, intelligence and counter-intelligence fields. US policymakers have recklessly accepted the premise that Russia and China are no longer their enemies, but are rather potential allies and partners fully deserving of US support. Only countries like Iran, Iraq and North Korea - which (ironically, in this context) work secretly with Russia and China - are still considered potential adversaries.

US policymakers should urgently re-examine their assumptions about the 'progress' of Russia and China 'towards democracy'. They should take account of Sino-Russian strategy and should recognize that the long-term strategic, political and economic threat comes from a Sino-Russian axis and associated participants like North Korea, Iran, Iraq and Syria. The Russian and Chinese leaders are still committed to their objective of world domination and believe that, disguised as 'democrats', in accordance with Leninist teaching, they will be able to achieve it..."

[FairOpinion]

Very interesting. Thanks for posting it.
I agree.

The original publication date is interesting too.

1993 -- Edward Harle 1995, 1998

Some people were telling us, and telling us, but it was easier to believe that the leopards changed their spots.

[Orion78]

RUSSIAN President Vladimir Putin today warned the US-led coalition not to attack other countries under the pretext of promoting capitalist and democratic values after having defeated Iraq's dictatorial regime.

"We are not going to export capitalist, democratic revolutions," the Russian leader told reporters as rumours in Washington allege that some elements of the US administration are mulling launching military operations against other Middle Eastern states.

[FairOpinion]

Thanks.

Russia is "warning" us. The nerve.

I think we better put up our National Missile Shield fast, then we can really tell even countries like Russia and China where to go.

[Orion78]

Blow for Bush as Russia agrees £27bn Iraq deal (8/19/02)

[rolling_stone]

I think we better put up our National Missile Shield fast, then we can really tell even countries like Russia and China where to go.

uh then they will just smuggle bombs in from Mexico across our porous land border....