Genetic evidence links Jews to their ancient tribe

Jerusalem Post (originally) ^ | November 20, 2002 | Judy Siegel

[Asher]

Genetic evidence links Jews to their ancient tribe

By Judy Siegel

JERUSALEM (November 20) - Genetic evidence continues to provide additional proof to the claims that the Jewish people are descended from a common ancient Israelite father: Despite being separated for over 1,000 years, Sephardi Jews of North African origin are genetically indistinguishable from their brethren from Iraq, according to The Hebrew University of Jerusalem.

They also proved that Sephardi Jews are very close genetically to the Jews of Kurdistan, and only slight differences exist between these two groups and Ashkenazi Jews from Europe.

These conclusions are reached in an article published recently in the American Journal of Human Genetics and written by Prof. Ariella Oppenheim of the Hebrew University (HU) and Hadassah-University Hospital in Ein Kerem.

Others involved are German doctoral student Almut Nebel, Dr. Marina Faerman of HU, Dr. Dvora Filon of Hadassah-University Hospital, and other colleagues from Germany and India.

The researchers conducted blood tests of Ashkenazi, Sephardi and Kurdish Jews and examined their Y chromosomes, which are carried only by males. They then compared them with those of various Arab groups - Palestinians, Beduins, Jordanians, Syrians and Lebanese - as well as to non-Arab populations from Transcaucasia - Turks, Armenians and Moslem Kurds.

The study is based on 526 Y chromosomes typed by the Israeli team and additional data on 1,321 individuals from 12 populations. The typing of the Jewish groups was performed at the National Genome Center at HU's Silberman Institute of Life Sciences.

The Fertile Crescent of the Middle East was one of the few centers in which the transition from hunting-gathering to permanent settlement and agriculture took place. Genetic studies suggest that migrating Neolithic farmers dispersed their technological innovations and domesticated animals from the Middle East towards Europe, North Africa and Southwest Asia.

Studies of Y chromosomes have become powerful tools for the investigation of the genetic history of males, since these chromosomes are transmitted from fathers to sons.

Surprisingly, the study shows a closer genetic affinity by Jews to the non-Jewish, non-Arab populations in the northern part of the Middle East than to Arabs. These findings are consistent with known cultural links that existed among populations in the Fertile Crescent in early history, and indicate that the Jews are direct descendants of the early Middle Eastern core populations, which later divided into distinct ethnic groups speaking different languages.

Previous investigations by the HU researchers suggested a common origin for Jewish and non-Jewish populations living in the Middle East. The current study refines and delineates that connection.

It is believed that the majority of today's Jews - not including converts and non-Jews with whom Jews intermarried - descended from the ancient Israelis that lived in the historic Land of Israel until the destruction of the Second Temple and their dispersal into the Diaspora.

The researchers say that a genetic analysis of the chromosomes of Jews from various countries show that there was practically no genetic intermixing between them and the host populations among which they were scattered during their dispersion - whether in Eastern Europe, Spain, Portugal or North Africa.

A particularly intriguing case illustrating this is that of the Kurdish Jews, said to be the descendants of the Ten Tribes of Israel who were exiled in 723 BCE. to the area known today as Kurdistan, located in Northern Iraq, Iran and Eastern Turkey. They continued to live there as a separate entity until their immigration to Israel in the 1950s. The Kurdish Jews of today show a much greater affinity to their fellow Jews elsewhere than to the Kurdish Moslems.

(Source: The Jerusalem Post Newspaper)

[DensaMensa]

}The wealth of information contained within the Old is what makes the New understandable.

Yes, and beyond that Jesus has no authority without the OT. Is just another "good and wise teacher". {ggg}.

[Just mythoughts]

So very true.

[Quix]

I suppose you're right.

I could have said unmixed.

But from the perspective of God in the Old Testament--and perhaps in the New given the 144,000--12,000 from each tribe--evidently HE has SOME investment in keeping the tribal identity somewhat pure . . . for whatever reason(s) we may not have much of a clue about at present--other than that it appears to please His taste, priorities, passions. I vote with HIM.

[Destro]

12 tribes in Revelations does not mean 12 DNA linked tribes nor does the number actually refer to a numerical value as such. It's all code.

[Quix]

Am certainly no DNA specialist.

But my understanding/impression is that it's not that difficult to hypothesize in time frame and in DNA specifics to SOME reasonable level of specificity the probable parameters/criteria of Jacob's DNA and, of course Abraham's.

Given he tomb available, it may be unlikely but not impossible to even get a sample from the tomb.

But just think. There's not THAT much variability on the part of Israeli's in AT LEAST SOME regions of the DNA. Even add in all the tribal groups claiming heritage back to Jacob--the variability can't be overly great.

I suppose it's quite plausible that the geneologies will be found in some ancient hidden archive somewhere.

To me, at this point, it looks about AS plausible and maybe more so--that DNA will disclose more sooner about the tribal differences among Jacob's offspring than will ancient archives.

Of course, I suppose angelic forces could come down and put some sort of spiritually discerned mark on the foreheads of each chosen tribal member. I wouldn't, however, bet the farm on that.

I doubt one should bet the farm on you agreeing with much of anything I say, either.

[TwilightDog]

If this genetic testing actually establishes that there are some type of genetic markers identifying Levites, it should be possible to divine the location of the lost ten tribes
as the Levites are interspersed among them. I ought to have some Levite genes in me from my Jewish mother myself as supposedly there were Levites in the family.

I don't get this hysterical reaction against "British-Israelitism"--or whatever designation one wants to signify it with. It doesn't effect key doctrinal points like Christiology or soteriology, so no one is "going to Hell"
over some peripheral doctrinal point. This type of overreaction against it looks suspiciously like some unconscious denial--although the connection with the White supremacists isn't good(but doesn't follow from the logic of the claims).

It strains credulity and goes against instinct, in my opinion, to believe that the Ten Lost tribes are just eking
out their existences in some third world backwater of humanity in a failed society somewhere with third world know-how. It just seems counterintuitive to believe that people that are of a close genetic lineage to the Jews would not have successful societies. I doubt there is any basis for a believing or disbelieving with categorical certainty who can be identified with the ten lost tribes.

[Quix]

Oh, really?

What Mt Sinai did you get this revelation from?

I consider it a no-brainer that people from the same father have very clear DNA markings to that effect.

I think that's pretty basic--A, B, C level DNA architecture stuff.

I suppose you or anyone can come along and claim it isn't so. You could probably come up with a list of conjectures, hypotheses and rationalizations that leave you feeling comfortable with your rather brash assertions.

But I feel pretty comfortable understanding that individuals with the same ancestor--e.g. one of Jacob's 12 sons--those offspring are going to have some VERY VERY CLEAR IDENTICAL DNA markers.

Of course, you can pretend it isn't so.

Such a pretense wouldn't even equal the pretense that the earth is flat. And there are folks who do that with a straight face. So, help yourself. But I consider it a rather strange, convoluted and off the wall construction on reality.

[Quix]

In my experience with The Word of Almighty God--Written for sure but often otherwise as well . . .

HE HAS CONSISTENTLY MEANT WHAT HE SAID AND SAID WHAT HE MEANT--AND HE HAS TENDED, IN MY EXPERIENCE OF HIM AND HIS WORD

TO BE VERY LITERAL OVERWHELMINGLY BY FAR MOST OF THE TIME--WHAT 99.9%? He may be literal AND symbolic--but VERY, VERY RARELY ONLY symbolic.

Of course you can declare otherwise.

You can even believe otherwise.

God seems to have never been bothered for the last 100 years of archeological research by those who claimed this or that title or event or location or place name etc. was symbolic only to be proven wrong over and over and over and over again by later archeological finds.

Of course you can claim to have a hotline to God's secret map of symbolic vs literal. You can claim to have the secret code decrypting ring from your Cheerios box into God's secrets on such scores.

For my money, I think I'll stick to expecting prophecies to be fulfilled AT LEAST LITERALLY first and foremost. History has shown that to be the far safer assumption.

But hey--you don't have to believe history. You can believe your decoder ring.

[Destro]

I do know otherwise. Revelations is written in the apocalyptic style popular in the Hellenistic world at that time. Revelations is not to be taken lteral in the sense that 666 on the forehead means a tattoo will be branded with the number 666 on the forehead, etc. You actually do need a decoder ring of sorts for Revelations.

[Eva]

Thanks, the family of my friend's Jewish heritage, came from Eastern Europe. I can't remember which country, exactly. This is such a rare condition that little is known about it. The girl is 28 years old, the mother of three small children and is down to 30% kidney function. The doctors are at a loss and aren't even sure that a kidney transplant would work unless they can figure out a way to regulate the body salt.

[Quix]

Thanks for all the Scriptures. I read every one of them.

Not only does Ezek 48 list Dan among those receiving their inheritance, the NT era prophecies in a number of places note such things as 24 elders--12 disciples and 12 heads of the tribes of Israel

I DID NOT say God was going to do thus and so. GOD DID.

He can raise up rocks as children of Dan for all I know or really care.

But I don't believe any mental gymnastics nor any amount of rubber Bible will prove to me in any way shape or form that God has already wiped Dan out in toto 100% forever amen. I don't believe it. I don't see it in Scripture. Some how, some way, for HIS OWN REASONS, HE WILL implement children of Dan receiving their proper inheritance according to HIS WILL AND PLAN which no man can stand against.

[Quix]

For argument, I'll pretend you're right.

And I'll lay out in a line--maybe a colorful graphic time line--all the umpteen dozen folks who claim that THEIR AND ONLY THEIR decoder ring is accurate.

And then I'll walk away alternately shaking my head and sighing and alternately laughing my head off.

And when God wants His Church to know such details, specifics and even nuances--HE WILL BE VERY WELL ABLE TO MAKE IT CLEAR TO ALL WHO KNOW HIS VOICE. I haven't seen it happen yet. It could happen most any week, it seems to me.

[DensaMensa]

}I don't get this hysterical reaction against "British-Israelitism"--or whatever designation one wants to signify it with. It doesn't effect key doctrinal points like Christiology or soteriology, so no one is "going to Hell" over some peripheral doctrinal point. This type of overreaction against it looks suspiciously like some unconscious denial

I sure agree with that. If anyone just mentions the topic of what happened to the Lost Tribes the zanies come swarming out of the woods like crazed termites. Their actions fall under the heading "methinks they protest too much", causing wonder of what they are trying to hide or divert away from.

It is very rare to see here a rational discussion of the pros and cons of the historical or biblical evidence surrounding the Lost Tribes of Israel without the subject being smeared by those who want to toss labels instead of evidence.

[RnMomof7]

The Mormons told me that there was no way to trace the DNA of the American Indians back to Israel because it was too long ago..did anyone flag them to this ?

[Just mythoughts]

For me the path is laid out by what is Written. Spent too many years trying to put man's ideas into that which is Written.

While I do not have all answers, I do know enough when something is out of step with the Written Word.

This nation has been blessed in such a very short time, none other like it in recorded history, cannot ignore this in view of what is Written.

It certainly is not that we are such a good people, because too many of us have forgotten where blessings come from and what is required to maintain them.

I assure you that if Jacob/Israel body was available it would not be used as DNA sample to prove what this article claims to be proven. Time will tell if a body shows up and some claim it to be that of Jacob.

[Quix]

Interestingly, FWIW: i then went immediately to this email:

---

Meekness - The Key to Revelation

Art Katz / www.benisrael.org

Apr 11, 2003

The key then to apostolic or prophetic seeing and the receiving of the revelation of the mysteries of God is found in Ephesians 3:8,


To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ.


In other words, all true seeing is given to men like Paul, who indeed see themselves as the ‘very least of all saints.’ Paul is not being deferential and polite, and making the kind of statement that a chamber of commerce speaker would make. He actually saw himself as this. He was the apostle to whom was afforded such visions that God had to give him a thorn in his side, lest he be exalted beyond measure for the magnitude of the revelations that were given him.

We must not, however, pass by apostolic character, which is to say, the deep humility, the authentic meekness and the Christ-likeness of the apostolic or the prophetic man. If the man is the thing in himself, then it is more than his knowledge. It is his very life; it is his character; it is his knowledge of God; it is what he communicates as one who comes to us out of God’s own presence.

This statement, ‘the very least of all saints’ was Paul’s actual, stricken, heartfelt consciousness of how he unaffectedly and continually saw himself before God.


It is a remarkable irony that the deeper we come into the knowledge of God, the more we see ourselves as less. Instead of becoming more exalted by the increase of our knowledge of God, the further down we go in seeing how abase and pitiful we really are. It is a contradiction and a paradox, and it is a paradox to be found only in the faith.

Authentic meekness or humility is not something that one can learn, emulate, or pick up at school. It is the dividend of God out of the measure of actual, real relationship with Him. It is the revelation of God as He is and the unutterable depths of it, that bring a man to this kind of awareness of himself. The revelation of what we are is altogether related to the revelation of who He is. The two things then necessarily always go together.


Then I (Isaiah) said, ‘Woe is me, for I am ruined! Because I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts’ (Isaiah 6:5).


This is the prince of prophets, Isaiah, speaking here. The foundation of the church, as we have said, is the revelation of God as He in fact is. That is the foundation. It is not as we think Him to be, which is more often than not a projection of the way we would like Him to be, especially when we have chosen to celebrate one attribute of God and ignore another.

The key knowledge is the knowledge of God as He is, both in judgment and in mercy, and the foundational men to the church are those who can communicate God in that knowledge. Paul had this
knowledge because he saw himself as the ‘least of all saints,’ and saw himself as the least because he had this knowledge.


The Lord Jesus Himself was absolute. He used language in such a fierce and uncompromising way; He overthrew moneychangers’ tables. Was He meek even while He was violent and offensive? This act set in motion the things that eventuated in His death. How do we reconcile the act of violence that Jesus performed and the meekness of God?

When we think of meek, we think of lamb-like, quiet and deferring. This is an aggressive act, and yet we are saying at the same time that it is meek. Meekness is total abandonment to God; all the more in an act or a word that would give an impression to the contrary, and lay the obedient servant open to the charge of a reproach for being violent, or being angry, or being too zealous. If God wanted to be violent and we withheld Him because it contradicts our personality, disposition, or preference, then we are putting something above and before God, namely, our own self-consideration.


A true prophet will not relent nor refrain. He cannot be bought or enticed into being ‘one of the boys.’ He shuns the distinctions and honors that men accord men. He necessarily has to or there would be a compromising of what he is in God. He is scrupulous in character and will never use his position to obtain personal advantage. He is naturally unaffected, normal and unprepossessing in appearance and demeanor, despising what is showy, sensational or bizarre.

He is not necessarily the man that is going to be wearing the hairy garment. He may be wearing rather a three-piece suit! He will not call any attention to himself by externalities. He is the thing in himself, in the depth and the pith and marrow of his being because of his communion with God and his history in God. The false will always lack meekness, but it is the indistinguishable sign of the authentic prophet, and also the quintessential character of God.

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[DensaMensa]

}there was no way to trace the DNA of the American Indians back to Israel because it was too long ago..

It is 3,000 years back to the Kingdom of David, almost 4,000 years back to Israel himself. At 4 generations per century that's around 150 generations. In 150 generations of breeding you might even be able to turn a fish into a bird. {ggg}. (Oh, no, here comes the evolution crowd!) {ggg}.

[DensaMensa]

Much is made of the word "meekness", and it often used to beat paritioners over the head by those who gain their power that way.

An alternate translation means "trained" or "disciplined". I don't which is correct, but the latter does make quite a difference and seems to fit better into the context doesn't it?

[Quix]

I know as well as you do that all manner of us can claim that The Text says all manner of things. Some are right sometimes. Some are wrong most times. Some are right most times.

Abraham's body is supposedly there--as well as Sarah's. It IS conceivable for all kinds of DNA research to flow from samples from same.

Of course getting at the samples might be another issue.

I'm glad you assert that your path is laid out by what's Written--a good starting poing and a good constantly checking mode, IMHO.

As to percentage of a nation or city that's righteous, I'm usually reminded of IF ABRAHAM COULD FIND 10 righteous in the city, was it?

I don't know what God's criteria in such matters will be. I do trust His mercy and that mercy triumphs over justice/judgment.

[Quix]

Perhaps one could say meekness means:

"trained to submit in a disciplined way to a higher authority in a strong, effective spirit of responsibility, alertness, gentleness and an attitude of loyalty and obedience"

or some such.

I certainly don't think proper meekness before God is a passive, weak kneed thing at all.