Posted on 04/11/2003 5:14:00 AM PDT by Asher
Genetic evidence links Jews to their ancient tribe
By Judy Siegel
JERUSALEM (November 20) - Genetic evidence continues to provide additional proof to the claims that the Jewish people are descended from a common ancient Israelite father: Despite being separated for over 1,000 years, Sephardi Jews of North African origin are genetically indistinguishable from their brethren from Iraq, according to The Hebrew University of Jerusalem.
They also proved that Sephardi Jews are very close genetically to the Jews of Kurdistan, and only slight differences exist between these two groups and Ashkenazi Jews from Europe.
These conclusions are reached in an article published recently in the American Journal of Human Genetics and written by Prof. Ariella Oppenheim of the Hebrew University (HU) and Hadassah-University Hospital in Ein Kerem.
Others involved are German doctoral student Almut Nebel, Dr. Marina Faerman of HU, Dr. Dvora Filon of Hadassah-University Hospital, and other colleagues from Germany and India.
The researchers conducted blood tests of Ashkenazi, Sephardi and Kurdish Jews and examined their Y chromosomes, which are carried only by males. They then compared them with those of various Arab groups - Palestinians, Beduins, Jordanians, Syrians and Lebanese - as well as to non-Arab populations from Transcaucasia - Turks, Armenians and Moslem Kurds.
The study is based on 526 Y chromosomes typed by the Israeli team and additional data on 1,321 individuals from 12 populations. The typing of the Jewish groups was performed at the National Genome Center at HU's Silberman Institute of Life Sciences.
The Fertile Crescent of the Middle East was one of the few centers in which the transition from hunting-gathering to permanent settlement and agriculture took place. Genetic studies suggest that migrating Neolithic farmers dispersed their technological innovations and domesticated animals from the Middle East towards Europe, North Africa and Southwest Asia.
Studies of Y chromosomes have become powerful tools for the investigation of the genetic history of males, since these chromosomes are transmitted from fathers to sons.
Surprisingly, the study shows a closer genetic affinity by Jews to the non-Jewish, non-Arab populations in the northern part of the Middle East than to Arabs. These findings are consistent with known cultural links that existed among populations in the Fertile Crescent in early history, and indicate that the Jews are direct descendants of the early Middle Eastern core populations, which later divided into distinct ethnic groups speaking different languages.
Previous investigations by the HU researchers suggested a common origin for Jewish and non-Jewish populations living in the Middle East. The current study refines and delineates that connection.
It is believed that the majority of today's Jews - not including converts and non-Jews with whom Jews intermarried - descended from the ancient Israelis that lived in the historic Land of Israel until the destruction of the Second Temple and their dispersal into the Diaspora.
The researchers say that a genetic analysis of the chromosomes of Jews from various countries show that there was practically no genetic intermixing between them and the host populations among which they were scattered during their dispersion - whether in Eastern Europe, Spain, Portugal or North Africa.
A particularly intriguing case illustrating this is that of the Kurdish Jews, said to be the descendants of the Ten Tribes of Israel who were exiled in 723 BCE. to the area known today as Kurdistan, located in Northern Iraq, Iran and Eastern Turkey. They continued to live there as a separate entity until their immigration to Israel in the 1950s. The Kurdish Jews of today show a much greater affinity to their fellow Jews elsewhere than to the Kurdish Moslems.
(Source: The Jerusalem Post Newspaper)
Very interesting.
"..A Syrian and ready to perish was my father,..." (De 26:5)
Speaking as a multi-degreed professional scientist myself, "Science," defined as the study of facts which can be known and tested, has yet to disprove anything which appears in the Bible, particularly where genetics is concerned.
Actually, where evolutionists strain for postulate relevance, failing to find any of the needed missing links to make their applications of genetic mutative fantasy remotely possible, many like the eminent (formerly of Harvard and formerly of this World--i.e., now deceased) Stephan J. Gould simply gave up and floated the equally unconvincing postulate of "punctuated equilibrium." James Watson, the attributed discoverer of the DNA helix is still in search of the evidence for an extraterrestrial panspermia to explain what evolution fails scientifically to explain to him.
I'll agree with Watson in part, that the Creator I recognize is extraterrestrial, but I am also more inclined to say omnipresent rathern than merely extraterrestrial. A Creator in my view would be greater than any one thing such a Creator created.
The Creator in Bible is quoted an described as having created everything to reproduce "after its kind." No scientific dispute there. Ernst Haekel and his embryonic fish-to-man models, on the other hand, were demonstrated to be the frauds they were even as he tried to invent a point that he knew he couldn't demonstrate. The facts just got in the way. Unfortunately that didn't stop Haekel and unfortunately doesn't seem to matter to some who call themselves "scientists."
Remember that Scientific study is the study of facts approached in an honest and objective fashion, not merely contrived postulates that willingly ignore objective facts that don't support the postulate.
By stating the "challenge" as you do, you reveal that you fail to understand reasoning which utilizes applications of scientific principles. "Science is a two-edged sword" is an interesting metaphor, but it is your postulate that science some how disproves the Bible at all that is the statement which is really "under the knife" and in serious need of some "exploratory surgery."
To acquire such a reasoning prowess, one must be willing to become founded first in a desire for objective study of facts and approach the study with a honest inquiry and let the facts manifest themselves. Where honesty is concerned a scientist must be honest with himself also, and willing to admit at the outset that 3.5 lbs of his grey mater is by definition limited in it's capacity to know all.
If you set up the straw man like that, it is up to you to produce the facts. Absent that, yours is merely a provocative throw-away challenge as much in search of relevance as it is in search of cleverness.
Pass the scalpel, please.
I have never seen a post on FR that says "Jews aren't really Jews" associated with the Assyrian records in the British Museum (I presume that's what you are referring to). It is you who is choosing to misinterpret and spin what others have said here in order to make your own noise. What is it God says about bearing false witness?
You may not be aware that the American PBS makes a habit of interviewing it's own "experts" to ensure it's desired outcome. PBS is never quoted as authority in serious circles.
That's just from one thread. And there were many more in the past year. The point I was making is that this scientific proof disproves the crackpots with the 20,000 Assyrian tablets theme. Which BTW, when you trace back some of their links come to some rather disturbing and racist sites.
So yes, I do know what the Bible says about false witness. However in this case, I was not presenting false witness. I was ridiculing facts (at least presented as facts) from previous threads
Ah, but I see from your reply in #58 to another poster, you've decided to junk scientific fact for another explanation. So just who is this 'everyone' you mention BTW? Surely not LostTribe. Tell us, which are the 'good' Jews and which ones should I stay away from? You can package it anyway you want but your 'cause' is showing through. That's not false witness either. That's an observation
I checked each of your links and find each of them unrelated to your claim. YOU ARE AGAIN JUST BLOWING SMOKE!
What is it that God says about bearing false witness???
Ulitimately, all history has to be re-constructed with the best evidence we can muster, but we must not be shy about changing our constructions as new evidence becomes available. Lots of new evidence has become available about The Lost Tribes of Israel in recent years.HereThe translation of the 23,000+ Assyrian Tablets in the British Museum has cast dramatic new light on what happened in Assyria during and after the Northern Kingdom captivity there. It's now time to seriously reconstruct our history of that time in the light of that stunning evidence.
Now it is well known by 'everyone' (everyone being many here at FR, see I have a group to associate everyone with unlike your 'everyone' group) that the poster in reference spent invaluable time trying to prove that the 20,000 Assyrian tablets somehow 'proved' that the Jews of today weren't really the Jews of then. As this evidence from this article has scientifically proven that is a false claim. Now either science has proven the Bible correct again or I am supposed to believe stone tablets from God knows when written in a foreign land about the Jewish people, but not by the Jewish people, as some sort of Gospel that transcends the Holy Bible? Hmmmmm, Bible or pieces of broken tablets from Assyria
So DensaMensa since I am using the posters own words as evidence of the group of which he was known to represent, I can't very well see how I'm bearing false witness of anyone. I take the Word of God as the Word of God, infallible. Not having to look at different translations to get the meaning I want out of it. You on the other hand I don't know since you haven't provided evidence. You'd make a good neocon you would. Calling names instead of presenting arguments. Ah, but neocons (along with a few paleocons like myself) fully support the existence and right of Israel to exist. Not because it's their homeland, not because it seems like the right thing to do, but because God Almighty promised it to Abraham in the Old Testament.
Tell me Densa, do you support the right of Israel to exist and protect their land?
And what do you know?!? Right Here we have a double talk book (although not the exact one referenced) saying that Jews aren't really Jews. Imagine that!! On the same site as a bunch of books about Assyrian tablets saying the same thing. So by inference, we can logically conclude that is the exact thing the poster was aiming at. Yeah, but I'm bearing false witness. Try again.
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