Pat Robertson stirs up debate (Islam is not a peaceful religion)

nj.com ^ | April 02, 2003 | KRYSTAL KNAPP

[TLBSHOW]

PRINCETON BOROUGH - The Rev. Pat Robertson spoke from the lectern at Princeton University last night like it was his pulpit, calling students to stand up for their moral convictions and not be swayed by popular culture.

His hair is all gray now, he had surgery in February and is recovering from prostate cancer, but the evangelist showed no signs of wavering last night when he spoke at the invitation of a student group.

[Jhoffa_]

There's too much bad blood on this thread..

I am going to go look up the "Chineese Death Ambulance" thread and do some lighter reading.

Regards to all.

[NeilSmith]

I thought America welcomed everyone. I thought people fled their lands so the could worship as they believed. Isn't that why america became great?

[ApesForEvolution]

Yeah, Christians are the haters. We hate the devil.

[NeilSmith]

I don't believe America was founded on Bible, however, it did play some part. The bible doesn't say "the pursuit of happiness, unless you are black and brought over here against your will".

[NeilSmith]

Translation from liberalese: TRUTH = HATE SPEECH or the more ridiculous version, "God Is Hate".

No, however, ONE'S TRUTH may = HATE SPEECH.

[ZULU]

Read selected words of Mohammad, the Messenger of God from the Koran.

These, of course, do not include the rantings from the Haddiths or the Sharia Laws.




[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

[2.254] O you who believe! spend out of what We have given you before the day comes in which there is no bargaining, neither any friendship nor intercession, and the unbelievers-- they are the unjust.

[3.28] Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends rather than believers; and whoever does this, he shall have nothing of (the guardianship of) Allah, but you should guard yourselves against them, guarding carefully; and Allah makes you cautious of (retribution from) Himself; and to Allah is the eventual coming.

[3.100] O you who believe! if you obey a party from among those who have been given the Book, they will turn you back as unbelievers after you have believed.

[4.101] And when you journey in the earth, there is no blame on you if you shorten the prayer, if you fear that those who disbelieve will cause you distress, surely the unbelievers are your open enemy.

[4.102] And when you are among them and keep up the prayer for them, let a party of them stand up with you, and let them take their arms; then when they have prostrated themselves let them go to your rear, and let another party who have not prayed come forward and pray with you, and let them take their precautions and their arms; (for) those who disbelieve desire that you may be careless of your arms and your luggage, so that they may then turn upon you with a sudden united attack, and there is no blame on you, if you are annoyed with rain or if you are sick, that you lay down your arms, and take your precautions; surely Allah has prepared a disgraceful chastisement for the unbelievers.

[4.144] O you who believe! do not take the unbelievers for friends rather than the believers; do you desire that you should give to Allah a manifest proof against yourselves?

[5.57] O you who believe! do not take for guardians those who take your religion for a mockery and a joke, from among those who were given the Book before you and the unbelievers; and be careful of (your duty to) Allah if you are believers.

[7.37] Who is then more unjust than he who forges a lie against Allah or rejects His communications? (As for) those, their portion of the Book shall reach them, until when Our messengers come to them causing them to die, they shall say: Where is that which you used to call upon besides Allah? They would say: They are gone away from us; and they shall bear witness against themselves that they were unbelievers

[9.73] O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination.

[9.123] O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

[18.100] And We will bring forth hell, exposed to view, on that day before the unbelievers.

[18.102] What! do then those who disbelieve think that they can take My servants to be guardians besides Me? Surely We have prepared hell for the entertainment of the unbelievers.

[25.52] So do not follow the unbelievers, and strive against them a mighty
striving with it.

[48.13] And whoever does not believe in Allah and His Apostle, then surely We have prepared burning fire for the unbelievers.

[58.5] Surely those who act in opposition to Allah and His Apostle shall be laid down prostrate as those before them were laid down prostrate; and indeed We have revealed clear communications, and the unbelievers shall have an abasing chastisement.

[60.13] O you who believe! do not make friends with a people with whom Allah is wroth; indeed they despair of the hereafter as the unbelievers despair of those in tombs.

[66.9] O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and be hard against them; and their abode is hell; and evil is the resort.

[71.26] And Nuh said: My Lord! leave not upon the land any dweller from among the unbelievers

[74.10] For the unbelievers, anything but easy.

[76.4] Surely We have prepared for the unbelievers chains and shackles and a burning fire.

[4.46] Of those who are Jews (there are those who) alter words from their places and say: We have heard and we disobey and: Hear, may you not be made to hear! and: Raina, distorting (the word) with their tongues and taunting about religion; and if they had said (instead): We have heard and we obey, and hearken, and unzurna it would have been better for them and more upright; but Allah has cursed them on account of their unbelief, so they do not believe but a little.

[5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people

[9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

[62.6] Say: O you who are Jews, if you think that you are the favorites of Allah to the exclusion of other people, then invoke death If you are truthful.

[5.33] The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,

[nanny]

What has Zogby done to aid the "plan"?

There are two brothers, I think, remember I think, one is the head of some Arab association here in America and one heads a polling company.

Now the head of an Arab association certainly would be able to advance the cause. And what better way to sway public opinion than to have a polling company. A few well-worded questions here and there, a few fudged responses, and wow!! 99% of the Americans believe Islam is a religion of peace, etc.

That would be my guess.

[FreeReign]

There are two brothers, I think, remember I think, one is the head of some Arab association here in America and one heads a polling company. Now the head of an Arab association certainly would be able to advance the cause. And what better way to sway public opinion than to have a polling company. A few well-worded questions here and there, a few fudged responses, and wow!! 99% of the Americans believe Islam is a religion of peace, etc. That would be my guess.

I have very little trust for pollsters and polls. I know how easy it is to use polls for propaganda purposes. I also realize that the other Zogby brother was involved with the Gore campaign.

That said, I still don't see any signs at this point that John Zogby and his brother are part of a conspiracy to advance the Muslim cause just because their heritage is Arab. The Zogby's are Christian. His desendants most likely left the M.E. because of Chritian prosecution by Muslims.

John Zogby has many customers around the world. We all know that he has a fairly good polling track record. Apparently, he even factored in the voter fraud in the 2000 presidential election as we were all criticizing him here at FR.

I would have to see specific Zogby push polls before I could come to a conclusion that Zogby is part of a "plan" to turn our country into a Muslim country.

[FreeReign]

Preaching the Koran in a Mosque can be equated to conspiracy, and racketeering, since the Koran openly teaches death, enslavement, and theft from non muslims.

Not all Muslims teach death and enslavement from the Koran.

Specific and individual acts that meat the criteria of conspiracy and racketeering and the laws that we have against these acts should be prosecuted. I don't know the specifics of these laws.

[FreeReign]

meat -->meet

[TLBSHOW]

True, Zogby is a part of the plan and works with his brother for the worthless fake polling company out of Utica NY.

[Valin]

In any religious faith, there are always people who chose to interpret its teachings in their own style, rather than in accordance with its doctrines. There is nothing peaceful about Islam.

On the other hand a lot of these so-called "peaceful" Muslims are sleepers placed here by terrorist fundamentalist groups as we learend so well on 9-11.





The Evil Isn't Islam
by Daniel Pipes
New York Post
July 30, 2002

(snip)
"Here is the rub: It is a mistake to blame Islam (a religion 14 centuries old) for the evil that should be ascribed to militant Islam (a totalitarian ideology less than a century old). The terrorism of al Qaeda, Hamas, the Iranian government and other Islamists results from the ideas of such contemporary radicals as Osama bin Laden and Ayatollah Khomeini, not from the Koran.

To which you might respond: But bin Laden and Khomeini get their ideas from the Koran. And they are only continuing a pattern of Muslim aggression that is centuries old.

Not exactly. Let's look closer at both points:

* Aggressive Islam: The Koran and other authoritative Islamic scriptures do contain incitements against non-Muslims. The eminent historian Paul Johnson, for example, cites two Koranic verses: "Strongest among men in enmity to the Believers will you find the Jews and Pagans" (Sura 5, verse 85) and "Then fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them. And seize them, beleaguer them and lie in wait for them." (9:5).

* Aggressive Muslims: Fourteen centuries of Islam have witnessed a long history of Muslims engaged in jihad (holy war) to expand the area under Islamic rule, from the early conquests of the caliphs to what Samuel Huntington terms Islam's "bloody borders" today.

Yes, these points are accurate. But they are one side of the story.

* Mild Islam: Like other sacred writings, the Koran can be mined for quotes to support opposing arguments. In this case, Karen Armstrong, a bestselling apologist for Islam, quotes two gentler passages from the Koran: "There must be no coercion in matters of faith!" (2:256) and "O people! We have formed you into nations and tribes so that you may know one another." (49:13).

* Mild Muslims: There have been occasions of Muslim moderation and tolerance, such as those in long-ago Sicily and Spain. And in one telling example, Mark R. Cohen notes that "The Jews of Islam, especially during the formative and classical centuries (up to the 13th century), experienced much less persecution than did the Jews of Christendom."

In other words, Islam's scriptures and history show variation.

At present, admittedly, it is hard to recall the positive side, at a moment when backwardness, resentment, extremism and violence prevail in so much of the Muslim world. But the present is not typical of Islam's long history; indeed, it may be the worst era in that entire history.

Things can get better. But it will not be easy. That requires that Muslims tackle the huge challenge of adapting their faith to the realities of modern life.

http://www.danielpipes.org/article/437



Further, the majority of Mosques and Madrasses in the United States are staffed by Wahhbai Muslims,

On this point you are correct.(note who they are angery at)
(snip)
The controversy centers around Sheikh Hisham Kabbani, a Lebanon-born religious leader who has been in the U.S. for the past nine years championing his international Naqshbandi order of Sufism. The Los Angeles Times published a lengthy profile on Kabbani on April 15 stating he has converted hundreds of inner city African Americans to his fold. Other reported supporters include his uncle, the grand mufti of Lebanon, the president of Chechnya, the Sultan of Brunei (one of the wealthiest men in the world), and O.J. Simpson.

To all appearances, the 54-year-old Sheikh Kabbani sees himself as the catalyst for making his brand of Islam the dominant Muslim force in the U.S. However, most American Muslim organizations see dangerous divisiveness in his message. Kabbani gained the enmity of nearly every Muslim group in the U.S. on Jan. 7 when he delivered a speech to a State Department open forum.

In essence, the white-bearded Sufi charged that the “ideology of extremism has been spread to 80 percent of the [American] Muslim population.” He claimed the foremost Muslim student organization was directed by extremists and hinted that alleged terrorist Osama bin Laden was buying nuclear devices from the Russian mafia which could then fall into the hands of radical Muslim students in the U.S.

http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0799/9907021.html

[F16Fighter]

THE Neil Smith?? Thanks for running my NY Rangers into the ground...

"I don't believe America was founded on Bible, however, it did play some part. The bible doesn't say 'the pursuit of happiness, unless you are black and brought over here against your will'."

a.) America's Founding Fathers certainly DID indeed base MUCH of America's Bill of Rights AND Constitution upon the Bible -- what history book have you been reading??

b.) The second part of your claim is just plain idiotic.

Tip to a DU inspired FR newbie:

Don't post unless you have a psychotic need to announce to the world that you are a moron.

[Michael2001]

Well I'm no expert on the Klan or CI. I was told by someone on this forum that the Klan had adopted CI as their official religion. My grandfather was a member many many years ago. He now says they are a bunch of idiots. However he still doesn't like blacks, though he has tempered his views of Catholics and Jews. I love the man, but he has some crazy political views.

[Michael2001]

However, a certain poster (whom I won't name) has been calling all over the forum for systematic oppression and a "ban" on peaceful Muslims. There are thousands of these people who go about their daily lives without harming a fly.

There are tens of thousands of Klan members and neo-Nazi's who go about their lives and don't harm anyone either. No I do not advocate making Islam illegal, nor do I advocate making the Klan or neo-Nazi's or Christian Identity illegal. I do oppose, however, giving these groups legitimacy. Pretending that their religion is peaceful when it is not, and denouncing those like Pat Robertson who have the guts to expose Islam for what it is, is IMO wrong.

If I was black (or Catholic or Jewish) I would be offended at people who were trying to defend the Klan or their cult religion. As an Infidel I am offended by people who try to defend the cult of Islam. We need to understand our enemy, not to to hide behind PC.

[Michael2001]

I thought people fled their lands so the could worship as they believed.

That's not why Mohammed Atta came, and there's a lot more like him.

[wardaddy]

LOL

[wardaddy]

I'm 7th generation Mississippian and I have known one bona fide Klan member back in the mid 70s. He was from West Virginia and was an unindicted participant in that famed shootout with the Communist Workers Party in Greensboro NC a few years later. He was a project manager for my dad and I worked under him in Tupelo MS. When he openly took part in a march in Tupelo that summer (1975) and was photographed taking his Thompson out of his trunk by the local paper, my dad fired him...it was a federal/state/local funded project and he was an embarassment. He was killed in a head on some years later in Dallas. My family historically frowned on the Klan as redneck buffoons even though by today's lofty standards we were/are passive racists.

I knew 2 Christian Identity folks. They were very smart and very dangerous. One was an NCO in the the Green Berets for 14 years and has had a lot of real time experience. They are light years ahead of the klan. I am glad they do not know where I live. They used to tell me they would hang me first since I should know better. They are obsessed with the "Edomites"(Jews). They believe western man as personified by Christianity is in a death grip struggle with the "G-dless Jew" and some are very serious about this. McVeigh hung around some of these fellows but in the end he remained some sort of pan-Odinist-pagan. They could care less about anyone else besides the Jews...everyone else is simply collateral damage.

Just my observances....your last post(after the one I'm replying to) was pretty good btw.

[viaveritasvita]

Well, let's see. Islam comes to mind!

[Luis Gonzalez]

Why do you waste your time with these idiots?

There is enough hatred, intolerance, and ignorance in the name of religion in this thread to power half a dozen good Jihads.

Pot...kettle...black.

The hell with Pat Robertson and his Christian Crusaders.

The only good Crusaders featured Wayne Henderson. They sucked after he left the group.

P.S. The prototype Jihadist? Look around...he's in here.