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Why do Dems oppose war?
The Washington Times ^ | Bob Beckel

Posted on 04/01/2003 12:38:30 AM PST by FairOpinion

Edited on 07/12/2004 4:02:09 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

I have been a card-carrying liberal Democrat all my life, and proud of it. I've always believed that one of the great foundation blocks of liberalism is that we are committed to helping those who cannot help themselves. From Selma, Ala., to Capetown, South Africa, liberals have been at the forefront of the war against racism. From the picking fields of Florida, to support for Mothers of the Missing, liberals have waged war against the oppression of children.


(Excerpt) Read more at washtimes.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: democrats; iraq; oppose
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To: nopardons
Why am I posting to a CONSERVATIVE forum? For the same reason I've been here since 2000.

I am liberal ... and that requires me, IMNSHO, to consider all viewpoints. (*)

While I shake my head at some of the more froot-loop-extremist points raised by some denizens here, I find myself challenged by some of the more rational posters, and find myself adding their perspectives to my store of ideas.

Regards

Sadim
(*) I genuinely believe that true liberals must consider all viewpoints. Those with close minds aren't liberals (or conservatives, or libertarians) - they are sufferers of arrested development.
21 posted on 04/01/2003 1:25:19 AM PST by sadimgnik
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To: sadimgnik
tsk, tsk, tsk ... typical solophistic drivel; not to mention personal attacks.

You've been here for a while, yet post lefty propaganda ( Bush is fighting this war for the " wrong " reasons ) and imply that you have an " open mind " and " consider " all points of view " ? LOL

22 posted on 04/01/2003 1:29:37 AM PST by nopardons
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To: nopardons
He thinks he's slumming.
23 posted on 04/01/2003 1:39:18 AM PST by Roscoe
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To: Roscoe
He does NOT " think "; he's incapable of that act.
24 posted on 04/01/2003 1:40:12 AM PST by nopardons
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To: nopardons
Ummm .. perhaps you can point to the personal attack you refer to?

I'm serious - I admit I have posted in anger on a couple of occasions .. but I (generally) try to be amenable. (*)

As for sophistry - fair enough, if you want to think that being willing to accept other points of view is the mark of a sophist, I'll adopt that description with pride.

And yes, I know that's perilously close to a 'personal attack' - so sue me.

Oh ... and finally, you'll note I said "consider" all popints of view. I suspect I actually adopt fewer that 10 percent of the arguments put forward - but I genuinely do consider the more rational ones, even if only to reject them.


Regards

Sadim
(*) At this point, should I start singing singing Kumbaya, and asking "Why can't we all just get along"? :-)

25 posted on 04/01/2003 1:41:10 AM PST by sadimgnik
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To: nopardons
Sorry. He feels he's slumming among the "denizens" here.
26 posted on 04/01/2003 1:44:22 AM PST by Roscoe
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To: sadimgnik
You personally attacked vast numbers of FREEPERS; if not all of us. You Bushbashed. You KNOW that you made a personal attack, in your reply to me; however, as a good little Liberal, you wear it with " pride ".

You admit that you " consider " ( sophistry and solophistic; not to mention hubristic ) a wee bit of the posts, but dismiss it, out of hand , sneeringly, smarmily, and pompously. Open minded ? Your mind is so bloody open, all of your brains, long ago, fell out. Yes, that IS a personal attack ! Sooooooooo , what are you going to do about it mate ?

Get lost !

27 posted on 04/01/2003 1:47:06 AM PST by nopardons
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To: Roscoe
Exactly so ! Poor baby, he's out of his depth. Perchance he is a masochist. : -)
28 posted on 04/01/2003 1:47:54 AM PST by nopardons
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To: sadimgnik
I genuinely believe that true liberals must consider all viewpoints.

Democrats don't. They are very closed minded and intolerant.

29 posted on 04/01/2003 1:52:36 AM PST by Mark17
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To: Mark17
Just as this Aussie Liberal is.
30 posted on 04/01/2003 1:53:38 AM PST by nopardons
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To: FairOpinion
a bunch of America hating leftists, calling themselves liberals.

Is there a difference anymore?

It's not an off the cuff wisecrack. I remarked to a friend during a discussion that in WWII, there were still Democrats that supported this country and the Constitution. Since then, the Left has become closer to the Communist Left and less like the Classic Liberal ( as Jeffersonian democracy is often referred). The Democratic party has mounted a long range, long running attack against all remaining Constitutional guarantees - like freedom to bear arms, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, press, a constitutionally restrained federal government - fought against a free-market, agaisnt capitalism, and has fought to institute a socialist state.

Where are these members of the Left that still ascribe to any of the princibles of the Founders?

I don't think they remain. The Leftism of Communism and Socialism, antithematic to our constitutional democracy, have taken over the American left during this century.

31 posted on 04/01/2003 1:58:08 AM PST by Ophiucus
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Comment #32 Removed by Moderator

To: sadimgnik; nopardons
ShrubCanDoNoWrong.com

As surely as a dog returns to its vomit, out it comes.

33 posted on 04/01/2003 2:04:37 AM PST by Roscoe
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To: Mark17
Democrats don't. They are very closed minded and intolerant.


I fear you may be (at least partly) correct. I've been booted from DU on more than one occassion for expressing classic 'liberal' views - and I no longer discuss politics with some of my Labor-Party-Supporting colleagues.

But I _have_ to believe that there are enough people of goodwill on all sides to make our society work.

It is an article of faith with me that we need to provide a beacon, to show those in dictatorships that freedom works.

Sadim
34 posted on 04/01/2003 2:11:44 AM PST by sadimgnik
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To: sadimgnik
I've been here far longer than YOU have been ! This is a CONSERVATIVE forum; primarily for AMERICANS ; neither of which you are. It has NEVER been all that " civil " a plave, as you've noted ; however, we tend to join together and oppose ALL Liberals.

You joined during our presidential primary season. Yes, the various factions were at each others' throats.The worst , of the rabid thrashers were banned. Once President Bush was elected president,all but the most fanatic fringers, have backed him. This doesn't mean that all of us agree 100% with everything OUR president does / says. OTOH, no bloody Aussie has any " right " to Bushbash; especially NOT here ! The owners of this site, by-theby, dear, do NOT take kindly to Bushbashing. FR has changed, sonce I joined. It's been invaded by trash, like you.

Like any Liberal, you're sorry, sorry that you've been caught and called out. And yes, yes indeedy, the problem, such as it is, is ALL your's. ; ^ )

35 posted on 04/01/2003 2:13:19 AM PST by nopardons
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To: Roscoe
Precisely so. But, what can one expect from a Liberal ?
36 posted on 04/01/2003 2:15:17 AM PST by nopardons
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To: sadimgnik
So, DU doesn't want you ? NEITHER DO WE !
37 posted on 04/01/2003 2:16:29 AM PST by nopardons
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To: Roscoe
sigh.

The reference to 'Shrub' was an attempt at humour ... as was my reference earlier in this thread to 'Klinton'.

But look, if you want me to be satan incarnate, feel free to project to your heart's content.

Sadim
38 posted on 04/01/2003 2:17:35 AM PST by sadimgnik
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To: FairOpinion
Bob Beckel says:   "I've always believed that one of the great foundation blocks of liberalism is that we are committed to helping those who cannot help themselves."

Bob Beckel, you're a flipping idiot.

Our primary purpose in Iraq doesn't have a damn thing to do with "helping those who cannot help themselves", nor is to free the Iraqi people from "the most vicious dictator since Hitler". It is a war on terrorism and this campaign in Iraq has only one primary goal and that is to rid America of one more state sponsor of terrorism.

For 25 years, America has turned the other cheek and "given peace a chance" and all we got for our efforts were dozens of acts of war upon this country, culminating with the infamy of September 11.

Make no mistake, this is a war on terrorism, no matter whether it is called Al Qaida, Hizbollah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad or PLO. And the single most important fact to understand about Middle Eastern terrorism is that 100% of it is state sponsored. There is simply no viable alternative to conquering those terrorist sponsoring states.

If the ideas of leftist fools like Bob Beckel ever gain respectability in this country and this war changes to one of "feel good" strategy that subordinates the fight against terrorism to "helping people", "freeing people" or "nation building", then this war is lost and with it too, America.

--Boot Hill

39 posted on 04/01/2003 2:31:57 AM PST by Boot Hill
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To: FairOpinion
...and he is bringing up some good points...

Agreed. But what he fails to admit is why so many of his liberal democrat friends are against the liberation of Iraq. It's because a republican is in the White House and partisan politics trumps national security.

40 posted on 04/01/2003 2:36:10 AM PST by Oldeconomybuyer (Let's Roll)
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