Radio Free Republic - The Shrew Interviews Robert Spencer author of Islam Unveiled

Radio Free Republic ^ | March 25, 2003 | The Shrew

[The Shrew]

Yes, tonight's show will definitely be added to the archive. I don't know exactly when that will occur.

Regards,

TS

[Luis Gonzalez]

"It is a reflection of your ideology that you would reflexively accuse him of lying when there is evidence to support his agreement with the host on this point."

The host said that there was dancing in the streets of New Jersey, I said that there's no truth to that, you say that somehow my ideology reflectively makes me lie, then offer up as "proof" an unfounded report of some unidentified people celebrating IN A MOSQUE?

Perhaps you need to examine your need to perpetuate unsubstantiated reports, and try to understand the difference betwqeen dancing in the streets, and celebrating in a Mosque.

[Mrs. Obelix]

"The host said that there was dancing in the streets of New Jersey, I said that there's no truth to that,"

Actually you said Spencer was lying.

"you say that somehow my ideology reflectively makes me lie,"

Actually I didn't say anything about you lying at all.

"then offer up as "proof" an unfounded report of some unidentified people celebrating IN A MOSQUE?
Perhaps you need to examine your need to perpetuate unsubstantiated reports, and try to understand the difference betwqeen dancing in the streets, and celebrating in a Mosque."

I offered you evidence that something went on in NY/NJ that night to support his not challenging the host on this point. There are numerous reports of odd goings-on that night, with varying degrees of plausibility. Spencer has never written anything I could find about 9/11 celebrations (yes, I checked) and I think you are being reflexively ideological to accuse him of lying for saying one word in response to the host in the midst of a rapid-fire discussion. Why don't you ask him, next time he's on, if he actually believes there were celebrations in NJ on 9/11, and if so, what is his evidence, before accusing him of lying?

[GirlShortstop]

I offered you evidence that something went on in NY/NJ that night to support his not challenging the host on this point.

Regarding the assertion that there were NO celebrations by Muslims....  Looks like there are liars everywhere (including my relative who relayed her story to me)!    ;-)  FReegards folks!

Some were dancing in the street on 9.11, muslim employees at St. Joseph's Hospital, Paterson, were seen smiling. The Passaic County Sheriff dispatched 80 officers to break up the dancing and to stop a potential riot.  
54 posted on 03/18/2003 12:24 PM EST by Coleus link

Besides the fact that Paterson was home to some of the 9/11 hijackers, could it be because Paterson was the town where Arabs were found to be hooting and partying it up upon hearing of the Sept. 11th horror?

You may recall that the situation was so bad that the chief of police asked the media to retract the stories, not becaue they weren't true (there were several eye witnesses,) but becaue he was afraid that angry Americans would burn the entire town to the ground in retaliation for the behavior of these people.
73 posted on 03/18/2003 2:10 PM EST by Motherhood IS a career

There were celebrations in the streets of NJ. They were quickly 'hushed up' and relabeled 'incidents of persecution of Muslim citizens'. Well, yeah. Lots of Puerto Ricans got murdered and they took it kinda personally when Muslims celebrated in Jersey City. They were gonna put a beat down on the celebrators until somebody called the cops. Puerto Ricans don't take crap from anybody...much less people that celebrate the death and destruction of their fellow Puerto Ricans...

Friend of mine is a cop in Jersey City that got called to the initial 'disturbance'. Course, he's a nice Catholic so I'm sure he's *lying* to make the Muslims look bad...
94 posted on 03/25/2003 9:57 PM EST by Black Agnes

but believe me when I tell you that in Paterson, NJ the day of the bombing (9/1) that a large group of people of Middle Eastern descent were dancing in the streets and celebrating! *indymedia of all places!*

Rumors circulated about Muslims dancing in the streets of South Paterson in celebration upon hearing of the attacks. According to some of my longtime Muslim friends and colleagues who live and worship in the area, this simply was exaggerated. With the exception of a handful of zealots, most people took to their mosques to pray and heal their heavy hearts.   *clearly* states the celebrations occurred.   edu_pdf

But when I drove through the streets of Paterson, NJ the day after the attacks, and I witnessed the celebration of Muslims in the streets, my skin crawled and I grew sick to my stomach. Reports of such acts abroad were to be expected. web_log

[Luis Gonzalez]

"Actually you said Spencer was lying."

Well, yes.

He helped perpetuate a lie.

That's lying.

I have my own show, and on that occasion when I have made a less than accurate statement, my guests have taken the time to correct me...they have not helped perpetuate a misconception.

The guest was brought here as an expert, and it was absolutely intellectually dishonest for an expert on the field to not only let that misstatement stand uncorrected, but help perpetuate it.

"Why don't you ask him, next time he's on, if he actually believes there were celebrations in NJ on 9/11, and if so, what is his evidence, before accusing him of lying?"

The statement made was that there was "dancing in the streets" in New Jersey, not "celebrations in New Jersey".

Should I also ask him why he mischaracterized the Koran's position on how to treat enemy combatants?

He claimed that there are three, I believe he named them as submission, conversion, and death. Yet, the Koran also clearly states that Muslims are to quit fighting once the enemy quits fighting them.

How many more inaccuracies are there in the book that we need to discuss with Mr. Spencer?

[Luis Gonzalez]

"Saddam is despised by radical Muslims as a bad Muslim, although he skillfully uses radical Muslim rhetoric."

As Saddam hates the Kurds and the Shi-ites.

As the Sunnis are not considered true Muslims, as the Muslims in Iran will more than likely overthrow the Ayatollas...

But I thought that Islam was the enemy, and that all Muslims hate with one unified mind...

Guess that's wrong as well.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Due, I'm not being critical of you, you hosted a great show.

One day later, we're still talking about it.

[Luis Gonzalez]

From DanielPipes.org

What is the evidence for the claim that Muslims were celebrating 9/11 in the
mosques of New York? I have done extensive research on this question with
respect to rumors of celebrations in Paterson, New Jersey and found that the
rumors were false (as were rumors of celebrations in nearby New Jersey
towns and cities: Verona, Cedar Grove, Little Falls, Newark, Jersey City, etc.)

As far as NJ is concerned, there is nil evidence of a coverup. I interviewed
every single reporter involved, and found not a single one who could plausibly
be accused of covering anything up. In fact, the Herald News (Paterson) and
Star-Ledger (Newark) quoted two eyewitnesses respectively (Rev Jack Copas of
Totowa, Emaad Abdullah of Clifton) who claimed to have seen "something" take
place on the streets of Paterson on the afternoon of 9/11. These claims of having seen "something" later ballooned into wild rumors of "Muslim celebrations" and even riots. But what Copas and Abdullah saw were not "celebrations." I should add that Lee Leonard had claimed on Channel 11 that celebrations had taken place, as had several radio stations (WINS,WABC, WPLJ). No coverup there. The rumors were
passed on by columnists in the LA Times and New York Post, as well as by a
Rabbi Stanely Asekoff of West Orange, who still hasn't bothered to remove the
sermon in which he made the claims:

http://www.uscj.org/njersey/w-orange/Rav/5762_Sermons_High_Holy_Days/First_Day_Rosh_Hashannah_5762.htm

I happen to know what it is that the eyewitnesses saw, because I got my information from one of the people involved. Bear in mind that Abdullah, who is a Muslim, took a remarkable risk in saying that he had seen anything at all; the city government was saying that absolutely "nothing" had taken place. (So, by the way, was the NJ Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith.) All of this was reported, and all
of it is available in the public record. There is no evidence whatsoever of a coverup
in NJ, despite the number of times such a thing was alleged.

I looked into celebration rumors in Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Florida,
Michigan, and California. I didn't find a single actual celebration. All I found were ...
rumors: the same pattern as I studied in detail in
New Jersey. The Wall Street Journal's Jeffrey Zaslow did a story in March (I
believe) finding much the same thing.

In light of this, it's hard to view claims about "celebrations" taking place in
this country on 9/11 in the absence of any real evidence for them

http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/670

[Luis Gonzalez]

I can supply you with blogspots and FReeper posts that argue that we never landed on the moon.

Don't insult my intelligence.

On that day, hundreds of police officers and firemen died, along with thousands of citizens, yet, strangely, there isn't a verifyable report of "street demonstrations" by ANY MEDIA, or ANY LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY, at ANY TIME, ANYWHERE to substantiate this.

It's a BIIIIIIG conspiracy!!!

I don't have a doubt in my mind that some celebrated the attacks on 9/11, I also have no doubt n my mind that they celebrants weren't all Muslims, and that quite a number of "Americans" rejoiced as well.

I do not believe that they celebrated in the streets of New Jersey...and lived to talk about it.

If they did, we are a bunch of pansies.

But to sit here and believe that on a day when blood rage ruled, that Muslims could stage mass street demonstrations ANYWHERE in the US celebrating the attacks, with nothing more than vague rumours left behind is incredibly stupid.

[Mrs. Obelix]

"He claimed that there are three, I believe he named them as submission, conversion, and death. Yet, the Koran also clearly states that Muslims are to quit fighting once the enemy quits fighting them."

There is no inconsistency here. Obviously Muslims will quit fighting if their opponents have submitted (or died).

Once again your ideology interferes with your simple reading (or listening) comprehension.

[Mrs. Obelix]

"'Actually you said Spencer was lying.' Well, yes. He helped perpetuate a lie. That's lying."

Actually it could be any number of other things. He may have been thinking of the Palestinians who danced in the streets. Or of some of the shadowy reports listed here. Or of something else. He may even have made a mistake, not intending to agree with the host on that point. I suppose on your show you have NEVER misstated anything.

What I am taking issue with is your ideologically-blinkered assumption that if he seems to agree with something that may be false (he didn't even state it himself, and it's actually unclear what he really thinks), he must lying -- i.e., he must have evil intent. Yet you have absolutely no evidence for this. I have (unlike you) read his book "Islam Unveiled" and found it scrupulously fair, balanced, and accurate.

This is just another example of the liberal tendency to demonize their opponents. It poisons political discussion (and it gets under my skin).

[Mrs. Obelix]

"But I thought that Islam was the enemy, and that all Muslims hate with one unified mind..."

Spencer never said anything remotely like this. He makes it clear over and over again in his book that not all Muslims are terrorists, or support terrorism, or think that terrorism has anything to do with Islam.

[Luis Gonzalez]

But I never claimed tat Spencer said this, however, others on this thread said it.

[GirlShortstop]

Actually it could be any number of other things. He may have been thinking of the Palestinians who danced in the streets. Or of some of the shadowy reports listed here. Or of something else. He may even have made a mistake, not intending to agree with the host on that point.

Mrs. O, it would be preposterous to even consider that muhammadens would express glee, and dance in celebration of the September 11th attacks!  That Spencer must be a liar! </sarcasm off>

The link below is not a Paterson story, however, it supports my assessment of the incredible naivety in dismissing the reports of the gleeful reaction that happened here.    The news archives void does not suprise me when recall how much coverage was not given to practically all other events of that fateful day; the news crews were pretty preoccupied, I'd say.     To your points about Spencer's book:  scrupulously fair, balanced, and accurate, I would add informative.   FReegards.

Arab Street Cheers, Govts Lament U.S. Attacks

Do you want to hear my honest opinion?" asked Samira Mohamed, a 26-year-old lawyer. "I was very happy when I heard the news...."

... Jordanians and Palestinian refugees in Amman took to the streets in joy, some handing out sweets to celebrate.

"We're ecstatic. Let America have a taste of what we've tasted," said Ali Mareh, a Lebanese resident of Beirut.

"I feel I am in a dream. I never believed that one day the United States would come to pay a price for its support to Israel,"

[GirlShortstop]

 
The news archives void does not suprise SURPRISE me when *I* recall how much...

[Michael2001]

Nothing interesting, nor anything really new. Just the same old tired parsing and out of context quotes that no one will allow to be done to the Bible, but we all accept as gospel when it comes to Islam.

You can try and take stuff out of context from the bible, and make Christianity look bad, but there aren't millions of Christians who'll act on it and make Christians look bad.

Out of context or not, there are millions of Muslims in many different countries who believe this stuff and are doing their part to kill the Infidel. And they are many times doing this with the support of the general population.

Their is a huge difference between Islam and any other major religion; whether you choose to see it or not.

[Luis Gonzalez]

"Out of context or not, there are millions of Muslims in many different countries who believe this stuff.

It's the level of education of your run-of-the-mill Joe Muslim.

[Michael2001]

Do you think there is nothing in Islam that sets it apart from other world religions with respect to violence? Take a look at the world conflicts and see how many of them involve Islam. Besides the US, Muslims are at war with Russians, Serbs, Hindus in India, Jews in Israel, Christians in Africa.

I am sure there are some good Muslims who choose to ignore certain aspects of their faith, but I believe there is something very wrong with that religion.