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George's big mistake was to listen to Tony
dailytelegraph.co.uk ^ | 16/03/2003 | Anne Applebaum

Posted on 03/15/2003 9:25:31 PM PST by Destro

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To: Hugin; Joe Hadenuf; Question_Assumptions
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/03/15/1047583739723.html

Powell furious at Rumsfeld's Europe insults

March 16 2003

By Aaron Patrick

New York

As America struggles to win United Nations support for deposing Saddam Hussein, new evidence of tension between US Secretary of State Colin Powell and the pro-war "hawks" in the Bush Administration has emerged publicly.

Mr Powell has let it be known that he is furious at Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld for negative comments about France and Germany that appear to have stiffened their opposition to a UN resolution authorising war on Iraq.

The head of the US military during the 1991 Gulf War, Mr Powell is also unhappy with Mr Rumsfeld's offhand revelation this week that British forces in the Gulf may not join an invasion. The remark encouraged opponents of beleaguered British Prime Minister Tony Blair, one of America's strongest allies.

"Diplomacy is slipping away and Rumsfeld needs some duct tape put over his mouth," The New York Times quoted an anonymous friend of Mr Powell's as saying.

Mr Powell has been seen as the leading moderate figure in the Bush Administration, a position that has given him leverage with other countries at the UN, and helped the US win a 15-0 vote for the November resolution that launched new weapons inspections in Iraq.

But the friend said Mr Powell felt his efforts since then to find a diplomatic resolution have been constantly undercut by the Administration's hard-line "hawks".

In February, Mr Rumsfeld described France and Germany as "old Europe", a perceived insult that continues to reverberate through diplomatic circles.

Mr Rumsfeld, his deputy, Paul Wolfowitz, and Vice-President Dick Cheney are seen as pushing hardest for a invasion and of being less interested in securing UN support.

In the book Bush at War, author Bob Woodward said Mr Rumsfeld had proposed an attack on Iraq at one of the first meetings of the National Security Council after the September 11 attacks. The meeting was chaired by President Bush.

Mr Powell argued that al-Qaeda should be dealt with first, and said switching the attack from Afghanistan to Iraq would fracture the international alliance against terrorism. President Bush agreed with this at the time.

The attack on Afghanistan did not provoke significant international opposition, but the US is even struggling to win the support of allies like Mexico and Turkey for launching a war on Iraq.

Mr Powell now appears to be repositioning himself in preparation for a failure of US diplomacy at the UN. Aides say he has moved from opposing an invasion to supporting action without UN support, if necessary, because of Iraq's refusal to give up its weapons and taking France's obstruction into account.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/03/13/column.novak.opinion.army/

The Army's Civil War

Nationally syndicated columnist Robert Novak participates in three of CNN's political public affairs programs- Novak, Hunt & Shields, Crossfire and The Capital Gang

Thursday, March 13, 2003 Posted: 6:27 PM EST (2327 GMT)

WASHINGTON (Creators Syndicate) -- As the Pentagon prepared to go to war, it was considered a 100 percent certainty there in the middle of last week that Thomas White would be sacked forthwith as secretary of the Army.

61 posted on 03/15/2003 10:23:10 PM PST by Destro (Fight Islamic terrorisim by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: vbmoneyspender
Baloney. Blair and his family are now terrorist targets for the rest of their lives. Or do you think people like Salman Rushdie are wimps?
62 posted on 03/15/2003 10:23:17 PM PST by Diddle E. Squat
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To: Hugin
Wow - very well put. I agree entirely. I think this whole thing showed the USA the true colors of the UN and even the operation of the UN that many of us never understood.... and how unbelievably bad the UN operates.

Also - Perhaps either the UN goes.... or we pay an equal percentage of every country that's a member, so that Guinea and Camaroon, who have those critical votes, will be on an equal footing with everyone else. And France..... saying it will veto nay resolution that could end up using force to enforce it..... god.... did they screw themselves.
63 posted on 03/15/2003 10:24:54 PM PST by bart99
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To: Question_Assumptions
I think that Powell and Rumsfeld are playing a great game of "good cop/bad cop". Because Powell publicly pushed for diplomacy and UN involvement

Maybe I am missing something here.

So what is the point of this charade?

The point of the charade would be to have voices that have credibility with different groups ultimately giving the same message. Powell has credibility with the diplomats and doves. Rumsfeld has credibility with the hawks.

LOL...Interesting scenario, but for some reason, I don't think that was the plan......The good cop bad cop thing. IMHO, I tend to think they were fragmenting and the focus was blurred.

64 posted on 03/15/2003 10:26:48 PM PST by Joe Hadenuf
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To: Destro
I think Blair supported us from a deep moral conviction that we were right...... and, I guess, I strongly disagree with your opinion.

But then, it's good to have differences of opinions..... sometimes.
65 posted on 03/15/2003 10:27:32 PM PST by bart99
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To: jimmyBEEgood
We won't need to bomb France - by the time the financial situation hits them from the loss of oil and other contracts from Iraq, they will be in very bad shape. Plus, they will be mostly devoid of travel from the USA.
66 posted on 03/15/2003 10:29:29 PM PST by CyberAnt ( -> -> -> Oswego!!)
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To: Destro
An "anonymous friend" of Powells says that Powell is upset? That's your proof that they are not talking to one another? Give me a break. Sounds like someone who knows Powell is simply trying to impress a reporter. They may have disgreements, but they are serious professionals and their boss would never tolerate such nonsense interfering with their job performance.
67 posted on 03/15/2003 10:31:18 PM PST by Hugin
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To: Diddle E. Squat
Couldn't you say the same thing for pretty much every American, British and Australian citizen? Particularly now, given that terrorists have shifted to soft targets like the discotech in Bali?
68 posted on 03/15/2003 10:32:13 PM PST by vbmoneyspender
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To: Joe Hadenuf
So what is the point of this charade?

The simultaneous diplomatic and militant fronts are just business as usual with the increased attention and scrutiny that is only applied to Republicans and overlooked for Democrats.

69 posted on 03/15/2003 10:33:09 PM PST by Consort
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To: Hugin
enjoy your naivete (is it ok that I use French words?)
70 posted on 03/15/2003 10:33:17 PM PST by Destro (Fight Islamic terrorisim by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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Comment #71 Removed by Moderator

To: jimmyBEEgood
Your either with us or aginst us in this war on TERROR .

Huh?

So what should we do to UN ????

As they disappear into our rearview mirror, wave, wish them luck.....

72 posted on 03/15/2003 10:37:07 PM PST by Joe Hadenuf
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To: Question_Assumptions
Another potential danger spot is allowing time for Saddam to plant explosives in oil wells, probably place mines along our route to Baghdad, plot out just who will handle the bio-chem weapons and get them spread out around Iraq. I think the delay will be responsible for many more U.S. casualties that would otherwise have occurred.
73 posted on 03/15/2003 10:38:16 PM PST by whadizit (A)
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Comment #74 Removed by Moderator

To: jimmyBEEgood
shame we can't veto such actions as appointing lybia as the head of the Human Rights commision and Iraq as the head of the DISARMANENT commision.

I think those actions changed the minds of about 20% of the citizens of the USA in the relevance of the UN.

Something will be done. Something has to be done.... with the UN and how it operates.
75 posted on 03/15/2003 10:40:52 PM PST by bart99
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To: whadizit
If the Turks and the Kurds confront each other in Iraq, it will be a bigger problem than fighting the Iraqis and the US will be blamed.
76 posted on 03/15/2003 10:42:42 PM PST by Consort
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To: Destro
enjoy your naivete (is it ok that I use French words?)

Whatever. But I know how the media works.

BTW, I didn't realize earlier that you are in Scotland. I can therefore understand your hostility to Blair. I would probably feel much the same were I living under his socialist rule. But being an American, my primary concern is his foreign policy, which from our point of view has been exemplary. Fair enough?

77 posted on 03/15/2003 10:43:43 PM PST by Hugin
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To: bart99
Has anyone heard about the three Iraqi ships that were just circling out in the atlantic for a week or two.....???

I haven't heard about them for a while. I assumed that's where he loaded the WMDs.
78 posted on 03/15/2003 10:44:51 PM PST by bart99
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Comment #79 Removed by Moderator

To: Consort
So what is the point of this charade?

The simultaneous diplomatic and militant fronts are just business as usual with the increased attention and scrutiny that is only applied to Republicans and overlooked for Democrats.

We should of never went that direction, IMHO.

I find dealing with the United Nations very offensive, as most all those anti American SOBs hate our guts....That's inordinately clear.....

We need to start treating that organization like any other common enemy.

80 posted on 03/15/2003 10:45:54 PM PST by Joe Hadenuf
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