Why Toomey challenge of Sen. Specter is ill-advised:"Republicans will lose seat to Dems"

Morning Call ^ | 3/8/03 | Charles Snelling

[Dr. Scarpetta]

I think it is fair to say that I'm something of an old hand at observing the political process. I was first elected as a Republican committeeman 50 years ago! A half century is time enough to learn the rules.

The Republican primary battle between U.S. Rep. Pat Toomey and four-term Sen. Arlen Specter is unseemly, and bad for the party.

[Jack Black]

You create then destroy these absurd straw men. Please deal with my comments and not these weird fantasy ideas. Recall petitions? Did I suggest that? Bush resign? Republicans in the minority? But also, I'm big enough to know that we'll probably end up there again soon, thats how politics works in the USA. Its hard to hold both houses and the presidency for a decade. Anyway, my sole suggestion is that it is OK to challenge incumbent RINOs in the primaries. To me, it is crucial. The ALTERNATIVE you imply is to always support incumbent Republicans because they are Republicans. This, I claim can and has led to a listless complacent Republican party with no ideology driving them except re-election. It also, arguable cost us the majority in the Senate for two years recently. If we had followed my advice we would have booted Leahey in a primary challenge and replaced him with a Conservative Republican. Even if that Republican lost the statewide in Vermont the R party would have known it needed to work harder elsewhere in the election to get the majority it wants.

In the last election there were already hints (threats) that if it was a one vote majority that another RINO would switch to the Dems. The majority was larger, so that didn't happen. RINOs are a dangerous and useless part of our coalition. We should replace them with real conservatives in primaries if we can. Yes there is risk in this approach, but the alternative is risky too. A neutered Republican machine that cares only for reelecting itself and is afraid to stand for anything or offend any segment.

Just out of curiosity what Republican sponsored legislation has passed since the new congress came in that makes you feel it's so important R's are in the majority? So far they have not done anything to differentiate them from the Dems by much. The judicial nominations are nice, but as I pointed out above it only takes a determined minority to make that ineffective. How many Republicans fillibustered Clinton's idiot apointees because they were too liberal? None.

We need to keep purging our party of RINO wimps until we have people as tough as Daschle, Gephardt, Leahey, Killary and the rest. They believe they are right and USE what ever power they have far more effectively than the congenial RINO contingent.

Lets see how the Assault Weapons Ban works out. That should be fun.

[dwilli]

Sure, just what the party needs, a slate of candidates that
the Demos can put the face of Trent Lott on. I don't know what area in which you might live but in my area the political climate has changed. If Jesse Helms were to run in my state today with the campaign he ran some thirty years ago, I doubt he would get 20 percent of the vote.

My party is too driven by the 15-20 percent who see no issue unless the candidate is 100 percent against abortion under any condition. And sadly a percentage who vote
for republicans are hard-core racists,picking in their eyes, the lesser of two evils.

Times they are achangin' and my party has to have the majority of the sixty percent who don't spend their life
hoping for the "good ol days" of the fifties to return, and are trying to adapt to social changes that are taking place.

[shamusotoole]

He was going to vote Buchanen in the General, or not vote at all. He was purely emotional and no logic would work on him. He ended up voting for GWB and the sockdolager argument came from his adult son, who said, "Sometimes I don't make any sense, but this time you aren't making any."

My friend, Bob (who's a real person), thought about it for a while and finally agreed with his son, and voted GWB, I am happy to report.

I am with you that it should only be a primary issue, but with one caveat, that experience has shown me that Conservatives would sometimes remain penniless rather than have half a nugget, or starve rather than have half a loaf of bread, for the same reasons my friend Bob was going to throw away his vote, pure emotionalism.

The way to have this be only a primary issue, is for an agreement at the outset that the loser gives the winner 100% of his support and backs it up. If a candidate, like Arlen Spector, were to see that he has an important conservative constituency, it could encourage him to a more right wing stance, or scare him.

Thus, whether it turns out to be a blessing or a curse, the outcome largely depends on the Integrity of the candidates, and leaders, that if they can do no good then they should do no harm. A lot is riding on it for us all.

[fieldmarshaldj]

Unbelievable. Remember that all of you who vote for Specter in the primary, you are voting for a man who won't live to see the end of his term (2011), you are voting for the 'RAT hack who will be appointed by Rendell when Specter dies. This is the NY 1980 Senate race all over again. Do you vote for the dying Socialist RINO whose successor would've been appointed by Mario Cuomo or do you vote for the new loyal Republican Conservative ? It's your choice, people. Vote for Toomey, or you're voting for Rendell. History must repeat itself.

[Dr. Scarpetta]

I will pray that you are wrong and vote for Toomey.

I will definitely vote for Toomey. I was quoting Charles Snelling, the author of this article.

[Dr. Scarpetta]

We need to keep purging our party of RINO wimps until we have people as tough as Daschle, Gephardt, Leahey, Killary and the rest. They believe they are right and USE what ever power they have far more effectively than the congenial RINO contingent.

I've often said our side is too gentlemanly and polite. The other side is ruthless, vicious, and will stop at nothing. The Republican Party just doesn't attract thugs.

[Dr. Scarpetta]

Remember that all of you who vote for Specter in the primary, you are voting for a man who won't live to see the end of his term (2011), you are voting for the 'RAT hack who will be appointed by Rendell when Specter dies.

As Dylan Thomas said, Specter is not going "gentle into that good night."

[fieldmarshaldj]

"As Dylan Thomas said, Specter is not going "gentle into that good night.""

Perhaps not, but he will be going, either by the grace of God or by the voters. I'd rather it be the latter before the former. Let Mr. Burns enjoy his retirement for awhile.

[pittsburgh gop guy]

"Arlen is a bright, able, well-spoken, well-educated Republican who has in his terms of office shown remarkable leadership and ability, and has accomplished many desirable goals for his constituents, his state and the nation."

NOT PROVEN!!!!!

And another thing, Karl Rove is behind Toomey running. He is doing this not because he thinks Toomey can win a primary and a general election, but to get Specter to be conservative on judicial nominees and vote for pro-life Supreme Court nominees if one of the Supremes retire later this year. If one member of the Supreme Court retires and Bush nominates a pro-life candidate, and Specter goes against that candidate, then Arlen would have hell to pay and the White House might sing a different tune about who they back.

BUT - in order to keep the right wing in PA at bay, Specter goes pro-life on judicial nominees and doesn't do anything stupid for the next year, and beats Toomey.

Toomey is bright, I like him and think he will be around for a while. For the Senate primary though, he is just a Karl Rove pawn - which is fine as long as it works.

And another thing, look for Toomey to possibly utilize the role Specter played as defense attorney to Ira Einhorn, in his campaign. I think Specter has gotten a free ride and never had to answer for being Einhorn's attorney and arranging for amazingly low bail. Einhorn skiped town - but was recently brought back to the US and thrown in jail for killing Holly Maddux. So much for Specter being for "LAW & ORDER" - he got a killer out on $4,000 bond!

"Nevertheless, even though it was unheard of for alleged murderers awaiting trial to be granted a release on bail, Ira Einhorn was granted bail. His attorney, former district attorney and soon-to-be U.S. Senator Arlen Specter, had engineered a miracle. Says Lopez, "Bail was set at a staggeringly low $40,000, only $4,000 of it needed to walk free. It was paid by Barbara Bronfman, a Montreal socialite who had married into the Seagram distillery family and met Einhorn through a common interest in the paranormal."
http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/einhorn/bonded_2.html?sect=13

[SauronOfMordor]

But the November election is statewide and can a hard right conservative carry all of Penn?

Pennsylvania has two senators, Spector & Santorum. Rick Santorum has an ACU rating of 87, while Spector has a rating of 42. Pennsylvania voters elected both. Don't tell me we can't elect another Senator as conservative as Santorum

[Nix 2]

Amen to that, and I know a whole bunch of ex mill-hunks who are STILL waiting for the final report of Specter's *task force* on the Dolly Rolling Mill. You know, the one he was re-elected on about 3 elections ago? Before the Mon Valley died?
ANYTIME you ask Specter about anything, he promises a *task force* or an *inquirey.* Nothing ever happens. People forget. And the Philly Labor bosses keep getting him re-elected. Freakin' flunky.

[Dr. Scarpetta]

I think Specter has gotten a free ride and never had to answer for being Einhorn's attorney and arranging for amazingly low bail. Einhorn skiped town - but was recently brought back to the US and thrown in jail for killing Holly Maddux.

Thanks for the history lesson. Very interesting info.