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Morality: Who Needs God?
AISH ^ | N/A | by Rabbi Nechemia Coopersmith

Posted on 02/26/2003 7:19:40 AM PST by Nix 2

Morality: Who Needs God?

If there is an absolute standard of morality, then there must be a God. Disagree? Consider the alternative.

God's existence has direct bearing on how we view morality. As Dostoyevsky so famously put it, "Without God, everything is permitted."

At first glance, this statement may not make sense. Everything is permitted? Can't there be a morality without an infinite God?

Perhaps some of the confusion is due to a murky definition of morality we owe to moral relativism. Moral relativism maintains that there is no objective standard of right and wrong existing separate and independent from humanity. The creation of moral principles stems only from within a person, not as a distinct, detached reality. Each person is the source and definer of his or her subjective ethical code, and each has equal power and authority to define morality the way he or she sees fit.

Random acts of cruelty may not be your cup of tea, but who says your standards are for everyone?

The consequences of moral relativism are far-reaching. Since all moral issues are subjective, right and wrong are reduced to matters of opinion and personal taste. Without a binding, objective standard of morality that sticks whether one likes it or not, a person can do whatever he feels like by choosing to label any behavior he personally enjoys as "good." Adultery, embezzlement, and random acts of cruelty may not be your cup of tea -- but why should that stop someone from taking pleasure in them if that is what they enjoy.

Is having an intimate relationship with a 12-year-old objectively wrong just because you don't like it?

Perhaps murder makes a serial killer feel powerful and alive. A moral relativist can say he finds murder disgusting, but that does not make it wrong -- only distasteful. Hannibal, the Cannibal, is entitled to his own preferences even if they are unusual and repugnant to most.

Popularity has nothing to do with determining absolute morality; it just makes it commonplace, like the color navy.

"But this killer is hurting others!" True. But in a world where everything is subjective, hurting an innocent person is merely distasteful to some, like eating chocolate ice cream with lasagna. Just because we may not like it doesn't make it evil. Evil? By whose standard? No one's subjective opinion is more authoritative than another's.

INCONSISTENT VALUES

Although many people may profess to subscribe to moral relativism, it is very rare to find a consistent moral relativist. Just about everyone believes in some absolute truths. That absolute truth may only be that it is wrong to hurt others, or that there are no absolutes. The point is that just about everyone is convinced that there is some form of absolute truth, whatever that truth may be. Most of us, it seems, are not moral relativists.

Bertrand Russell wrote:

I cannot see how to refute the arguments for the subjectivity of ethical values but I find myself incapable of believing that all that is wrong with wanton cruelty is that I don't like it.

Not too many of us believe that killing an innocent person is just a matter of taste that can change according to whim. Most of us think it is an act that is intrinsically wrong, regardless of what anyone thinks. According to this view, the standard of morality is an unchangeable reality that transcends humanity, not subject to our approval.

THE INFINITE SOURCE

An absolute standard of morality can only stem from an infinite source. Why is that?

When we describe murder as being immoral, we do not mean it is wrong just for now, with the possibility of it becoming "right" some time in the future. Absolute means unchangeable, not unchanging.

What's the difference?

My dislike for olives is unchanging. I'll never start liking them. That doesn't mean it is impossible for my taste to change, even though it's highly unlikely. Since it could change, it is not absolute. It is changeable.

The term "absolute" means without the ability to change. It is utterly permanent, unchangeable.

Think of something absolute. Take for example an icon of permanence and stability -- the Rock of Gibraltar. "Get a piece of the rock" -- it lasts forever!

But does it really? Is it absolute?

No. It is undergoing change every second. It is getting older, it is eroding.

The nature of absolute is a bit tricky to grasp because we find ourselves running into the same problem of our finite selves attempting to perceive the infinite, a topic we have discussed in a previous article in this series. Everything that exists within time undergoes change. That's what time is -- a measurement of change. In Hebrew, shanah means "year," sharing the same root shinah, "change."

If everything in the finite universe is undergoing change, where can we find the quality of absolute?

If everything in the finite universe is undergoing change -- since it exists within time -- where can we find the quality of absolute?

Its source cannot be in time, which is constantly undergoing change. It must be beyond time, in the infinite dimension. Only God, the infinite being that exists beyond time, is absolute and unchangeable.

'I am God, I do not change.' (Malachi 3:6)

Therefore an absolute standard of morality can exist only if it stems from an infinite dimension -- a realm that is eternal, beyond time, with no beginning and no end.

THE DEATH OF EDUCATION

In addition to the demise of morality, moral relativism inevitably leads to the death of education and genuine open-mindedness. The thirst for real learning comes from the recognition that the truth is out there waiting to be discovered -- and I am all the more impoverished with its absence.

Professor Alan Bloom writes in his book "The Closing of the American Mind,"

It is the rarest of occurrences to find a youngster who has been infused by this [liberal arts] education with a longing to know all about China or the Romans or the Jews.

All to the contrary. There is an indifference to such things, for relativism has extinguished the real motive of education, the search for the good life...

...out there in the rest of the world is a drab diversity that teaches only that values are relative, whereas here we can create all the life-styles we want. Our openness means we do not need others. Thus what is advertised as a great opening is a great closing. No longer is there a hope that there are great wise men in other places and times who can reveal the truth about life...

If everything is relative, then it makes no difference what anyone thinks. Ideas no longer matter. With no absolute standard of right and wrong or truth and falsehood, the pursuit of wisdom becomes nonsensical. What are we searching for? If no idea is more valid than another, there is no purpose in re-evaluating one's belief system and being open to exploring new concepts -- since there is no possibility of ever being wrong.

A common argument often heard for supporting relativism is that in the world at large we see a plethora of differing positions on a wide range of moral issues. Try to find one issue all cultures universally agree to!

Professor Bloom addresses this contention:

History and the study of cultures do not teach or prove that values or cultures are relative ... the fact that there have been different opinions about good and bad in different times and places in no way proves that none is true or superior to others. To say that it does so prove is as absurd as to say that the diversity of points of view expressed in a college bull session proves there is no truth ... the natural reaction is to try to resolve the difference, to examine the claims and reasons for each opinion.

Only the unhistorical and inhuman belief that opinions are held for no reason would prevent the undertaking of such an exciting activity.

THE NATURE OF DEBATE

The plethora of disagreements demonstrates exactly the opposite point. If everything is relative, what on earth are we arguing about?

Imagine walking down the street and you hear a ferocious argument taking place behind a door. People are yelling at each other in a fit of rage. You ask a bystander what the commotion is all about. He tells you this is a Ben & Jerry's ice cream store and they're fighting over what is the best flavor of ice cream.

Impossible.

Heated debates occur only because we believe there are right and wrong positions.

Real debates and disagreements occur only because we believe there are right and wrong positions, not mere preferences of flavors. Think of a time you experienced moral outrage. The force behind that anger is the conviction that your position is the correct one. Matters of preference, like music and interior design, do not provoke moral outrage.

What provokes our moral outrage? Injustice? Cruelty? Oppression? There is the sense that an absolute standard of morality is being violated, an objective standard that transcends humanity, that stems from an infinite and absolute Being.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: absolutes; change; ifitfeels; immorality; leftists; moralrelativism; uneducated
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To: freeeee
G-d does not personally tell someone to murder and I certainly did not imply that He does. But, there is a time for war. If that makes you uncomfortable, well that's a problem you'll have to deal with ..Read the following and understand that it may as well pertain to the current events at hand...

Jeremiah 50

301 posted on 02/26/2003 4:45:59 PM PST by hope (The left and Saddam share the same talking points...)
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1
So what is the difference between them? Keep in mind that Exodus was written by Moses. He was the one who supposedly ordered the murder of the 3000. Of course he would claim it was God who told him to do it. And I imagine Osama probably thinks the same thing, that he was doing God's work. What is your def'n of murder. Thanks.
302 posted on 02/26/2003 5:06:32 PM PST by plusone
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To: HumanaeVitae
Interesting you bring up the Incas and human sacrifices on altars.

Not a practical response to my post...merely sophistry based on the same mysticism that allowed the world to worship the God Ra and his associates, Woden, Thor, Jupiter, Zeus, and the other myriad of disappearing dieties before and after...all, of course, which ultimately vanished along with their abundant worshippers.

I do believe, however, that the ferverent religious zeal of people such as yourself should not be impuned, ridiculed, or brought to task.... and as such I think I have overstepped. No insults intended or impied.

303 posted on 02/26/2003 5:10:03 PM PST by rmvh
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To: Nix 2
BUMP
304 posted on 02/26/2003 5:13:18 PM PST by independentmind
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To: demosthenes the elder
G-d [sic] is not a name, even when capitalized.

Your refusal to admit it, does not make it so. Since you brought up the Bible, the Hebrew Bible does indeed treat it as a proper name. Your insistance to the contrary is an interesting diversion and says much. My saying black is white may feel good, but it does not make it so.

I maintain that exterminating noncombatants down to the last little infant is mass-murder, irrespective of what it is called, and who orders it. If that means I am panning the ancient Hebrews... If that means I am questioning God, fine. So be it.

Might I ask you, where did you get such a refined "morality"? And just because you say so, does that make it so? Who gets to decide such "morality"? Your outbursts are proving the point of the article... G-d exists - and a proof is "right and wrong". Thanks for your contribution.
305 posted on 02/26/2003 5:17:26 PM PST by safisoft
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To: Nix 2
This was excellent. Thanks for posting.
306 posted on 02/26/2003 5:17:56 PM PST by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: HumanaeVitae
Re your # 209... Einstein was a socialist, you know.

Yes, I have noted over my life that most Jews are.

On the other hand I do believe that no one is perfect....neither you nor I. And, with that in mind, I do believe he was a great human being and a credit to humanity.

307 posted on 02/26/2003 5:18:15 PM PST by rmvh
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To: plusone
Keep in mind that Exodus was written by Moses

Please cite your source for this. Do you have one, is it irrefutable, or are you just guessing, and if that is true, what does that say?
308 posted on 02/26/2003 5:23:09 PM PST by safisoft
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Comment #309 Removed by Moderator

To: plusone
Keep in mind that Exodus was written by Moses.

I've already gone over this with the libertarian chap. You simply do not have faith that what is written in the Bible is truth. You have that choice, to accept the Bible as the word of God, or to accept some silly circular argument regarding rights and initation of force, or even stranger notions if you will.

310 posted on 02/26/2003 5:53:10 PM PST by Rightwing Conspiratr1
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To: greymaign
Sure Mark 15

311 posted on 02/26/2003 5:54:37 PM PST by Rightwing Conspiratr1
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To: steve-b
The LORD commanded Rightwing Conspiratr1 to cancel his FR account and never to post here again.

No it doesn't work that way. That was either Harry Browne or Satan whispering in your ear.

It's been nice knowing you.

It's a pleasure to meet you steve-b. I will be performing here all week, well probably much longer. :-)

312 posted on 02/26/2003 6:19:14 PM PST by Rightwing Conspiratr1
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To: demosthenes the elder
careful...
you seem to be confusing "truth" and "fact"
the two are NOT uniformly interchangeable.

Your are absolutely right. "Equivalence" too is often equated with truth. Good catch on your part, thanks.
313 posted on 02/26/2003 6:45:54 PM PST by Barry Goldwater ("Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice!")
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To: safisoft
Here is a source, but nothing is irrefutable. The encyclopedia, "Who's Who in the Bible" by P. Calcocoressi. From page ix "The OT was never a unitary work. It was seen as a miscellany in three parts; the LAw, and the Prophets and the so-called Writings which could just as well be called 'the rest'. The Law--in Hebrew Torah-- consisted of the first five books or Pentateuch (Greek for five books). They were ascribed to Moses and put at the beginning of the Hebrew Bible...snip...But the Mosaic authorship was suspect as much as a thousand years ago... So I guess it's a draw. Some say Moses, but others disagree. Thanks.
314 posted on 02/26/2003 6:49:37 PM PST by plusone
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To: Nix 2
God Bump
315 posted on 02/26/2003 6:54:35 PM PST by Search4Truth (Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God - Thomas Jefferson.)
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1
I really don't know what I believe about this, to be honest. I'm not sure how anyone could. But if the Bible is the inspired word of God, then I would think that it should be consistant. For Moses to get commandments forbidding murder, then going and committing it on a huge scale is inconsistant. Something is not right here. It seems like the ancient Jews (whoever wrote the OT) are covering their tracks. They commit crimes against other tribes and peoples, and try to justify it by saying it is God's will. Anybody can do that. I don't buy into the "belief at all costs" argument. I think a person can be open minded about this and still believe in a creator. Maybe just not 'their' creator. Thanks.
316 posted on 02/26/2003 6:56:15 PM PST by plusone
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To: steve-b
He hasn't deigned to explain them to us in person.

Nonsense. What do you call the Ten Commandments? What do you call the Sermon on the Mount? Just because you refuse to listen to His Word, does not mean he has not given it to us.

More importantly though, we all have a conscience. We all know right from wrong and we know it is not subjective. As the article says there really are no subjectivists. I would go even further. I would say that we all agree on what is right and what is wrong. It is just that some lie in order to try to justify their desires.

317 posted on 02/26/2003 7:02:00 PM PST by gore3000
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To: freeeee
DNA is an aggregation of molecules. Bits and pieces of DNA are not alive. When assembled in the proper sequence, they are the building blocks of life. So it would appear that assembling DNA in the proper order is the process of creating life. And man has achieved this.

No we have not. We have rearranged DNA, but we have not created new DNA strand. We have also not made new DNA from simple molecules either. However that is not the point. Even then, it is doubtful that DNA is itself the source of life. There is no difference between a live cell's DNA and the same cells DNA one minute after death.

318 posted on 02/26/2003 7:14:16 PM PST by gore3000
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To: OWK
Like flying airplanes into buildings?

Oh wait, they did that for God.

Those people are not Christians and it is utterly ridiculous to bash Christians with what the followers of a mass murderer and rapist like Mohammed do.

319 posted on 02/26/2003 7:20:19 PM PST by gore3000
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To: Nix 2
"Morality: Who Needs God?"

I do

320 posted on 02/26/2003 7:22:14 PM PST by SERE_DOC (Murphy's rules for combat #14 The equipment you are using was made by the lowest bidder!)
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