Author Frank Schaeffer to speak on his Orthodox faith

modbee.com ^ | February 22, 2003 @ 05:45:12 AM PST | AMY WHITE

[Destro]

Frank Schaeffer, son of the late renowned Christian theologian Francis Schaeffer, will be in Modesto next weekend to discuss the Orthodox church and faith. Schaeffer holds a photo of his son, John, a Marine.

Author Frank Schaeffer will speak at Annunciation Greek Orthodox Church in Modesto next Saturday on the historic Orthodox tradition and his conversion to the Orthodox faith.

[Destro]

The church, unlike Islam does not link the state and the faith. The Orthodox wish to convert but not control (as do other Christian faiths as well). Catholics who also do not get this fine point wonder why the Catholic Church would invite pro-abortion Catholics like Mario Cuomo to functions and not out right ban them, etc.,

The Christian Church is not a political party and seeks to lead through example and persuasion.

[BibChr]

Thank you, very illustrative. So to sum up, a quick count:

My one posting: apposite Scriptures cited = eleven

Your two responses: apposite refutational Scriptures cited = zero

Sometimes the offhanded is the most revealing, isn't it? But we're just living our two mutually exclusive religions, aren't we? God-centered Biblical Christianity on the one hand, man-centered tradition-bound sectarianism in your case.

Your living illustration showed more than ten posts from me could have done. Thank you.

Dan

[Theophilus]

I love Francis Schaeffer but I wish he'd homeschooled his son.

[Destro]

May I ask if you follow the Nicean Creed?

[Destro]

The result would have been the same.

[eleni121]

The Christian Church is not a political party and seeks to lead through example and persuasion.

Understood, but the moral relativism and decay in our society in these times demands more than acquiescence and reliance on quiet diplomacy.

[BibChr]

May I ask if you follow the Nicean Creed?

"Follow" it? In the sense that I accept it as an authority, independent of and equal to the word of God? Certainly not.

Dan

[Marysecretary]

Oh, thank you. I'm a little dense at times. Bless you.

[crazykatz]

bibchr..... Satan can quote Scripture.... just like you do.

You just spout off in PRIDE, always in pride and vanity...always.

I see you on threads running down EVERYBODY else's Faith in Jesus Christ right on down to the dirt....you are a mean spirited man.

NOBODY here put you in charge of ANYTHING... much less ALL OF CHRISTIANITY!!

You need to get humble and get humble real quick!

I wouldn't trust you to interpret the embossing on toilet paper.

Your vanity and meaness are the reasons why I would never trust you. You..."HAVE NOT LOVE....".

"Tinkling brass"... yes, that sound is you ...definitely!

Frank Schaeffer is a wonderful man, Christian believer and a good father of a US Marine. Why are you on this thread running down the FAITH of a man who is so good?

Never mind answering... I already know....green eyed jealousy is evident in your postings. You try to disguise it by quoting scriptures...

HA! YOU ARE JUST JEALOUS OF FRANK SCHAEFFER because he got the attention that YOU would like to have.

[Destro]

I bring it up for a reason -- the reason the Nicean creed came about was because "lay men" and those who set themselves up as "Bishops" in churches (Ecclesia is Greek for community) would read the Bible and come up with their own spin on what the Word was (Logos) and what that relation of the Word is with God in relation to the Holy Spirt, etc. This led to heresy after heresy, the biggest one being Arianisim which influences Islam.

Orthodoxy is simply the right interpretation of the Gospels based on the scholarship of Bishops who were direct descendents of Churches founded by the Apostles and their first converts.

The Nicean Creed is the Readers Digest for the faithful - a study guide to the owner's manual that is the Bible.

[Theophilus]

I know that God knows all contingencies but knows nothing contingently and that God wills whatsoever comes to pass. But how does God find glory in the apostasy of his good servant's son?

[Destro]

"Now people look at Orthodox and think it is just one more denomination," Schaeffer said. "But I look at it as unbroken continuity."

His son has joined the original Church that invented the Jesus Fish symbol. Protestants need to translate the Gospels. The Greek Orthodox worship in the Gospels' Greek language daily.

The Apostles founded NO protestant churches.

[twigs]

I know exactly what you mean. I was raised in a Southern Baptist church. Then I was introduced to a PCA church in college where the minister had been raised Episcopalian. His influence was seen in a stronger liturgy than you usually see in a presbyterian church. I miss it a lot now. I don't think I could go Orthodox, but I miss that sense of worship I experienced at church in college.

[Theophilus]

The Icthus, greek and founders notwithstanding, I'm only interested in the truth of the gospel.

"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."

I do wish I knew the original greek.

[Destro]

So the people in whose language the Gospel was written in and who were among the first Gentiles converted to Christianity, verily who actually coined the term "Christianos" as the defining name for the faith had it all wrong until Northern Europeans came along and learned to read Greek around the 17th century onwards?

May I ask when the "Christian" movement went into Apostacy in your faith and when was it corrected?

[BibChr]

I'm totally happy for honest readers to compare our focii:

You: personalities, Satan, personalities, personalities, personalities (based on blind mind-reading)

Me: Christ, God, God's Word, God's truth (laid out for any and all to see for himself)

Christ's invitation goes out to you, too. Pretend I'm dead; I'm of no consequence. But listen to Christ. You've nothing to lose but chains and deception, and everything to gain!

Christ says to you:

"Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light"
Matthew 11:28-30 (ESV)

Dan

[BibChr]

There's a lot to be said for the Nicene Creed, in its place: as a manmade summary of Bible teaching.

But when I have folks over for dinner, I don't pass out pictures of food, or read stories of others who've had delectable feasts in the past. I cook up the real thing, and lay it out.

And so, as I deal with you, I deal with all. I lay out the Word of God, before your heart, mind and conscience. What you do with it is a matter that will bring God's judgment or blessing.

There's a definite place for respectful listening to wiser brothers, whether they lived in 400 AD or 2003 AD. But it's no substitute for laying out the Word of God. After all, Scripture is the fully adequate revelation of the person, ways, and will of God. The sinner finds the way of salvation through Scripture (Romans 10:17; 2 Timothy 3:15; Hebrews 2: 1-3). The believer is made fruitful (Psalm 1:2, 3) and successful in the will of God (Joshua 1:8), warned and kept from sin (Psalms 19:11; 119:9,11), made holy (John 17:17), given wisdom (Psalm 9:7) and freeing knowledge of the truth (John 8: 31, 32), taught the fear of God (Psalm 119:38), counseled (Psalm 119:24), taught, reproved, corrected, and disciplined in the way righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16) by Scripture.

Recollections of others' study of Scripture won't do any of that. It is Scripture itself. That is why God, as I showed you earlier, gave it to His children at large — not to a separate caste.

Dan

[slimer]

How is it that a form of christianity that considers itself in "original" form squares the obsession with images (icons) in worship

You make a good point. It seems that those who are more interested in a feeling based emotional experience in worship, tend to be attracted by the grand old churches with their emphasis on architecture, statues, and ritualistic practices. My observation is, generally speaking, that people who are attracted to this kind of assembly are apt to listen to and believe what the church dictates as doctrine rather than read and study the bible for themselves and allow the Holy Spirit to guide them.

At the same time there are Protestent churches who claim uninterupted unity with the New Testament Church practices that came to be at Pentecost. These churches emphasize Christ as the head of the church and that the church is the people that make up the body and not a building where one goes to worship. The only ritual that they practice is the Lord's Supper where they break bread and drink wine as Jesus commanded "do this in rememberance of me". These churches are void of crucifixes and statues and believe these things to be graven images or idols which divert peoples attention from the main focus of the assembly, which is to worship and glorify Christ.

[Destro]

Thank God those Orthodox fathers sat down and TOLD Christians what read (through the divine guidence of the Holy Spirit I am sure) or you wuld have been reading the apocrypha and thinking it was authentic too.

[BibChr]

Thank God those Orthodox fathers sat down and TOLD Christians what [sic; add "to"?] read (through the divine guidence of the Holy Spirit I am sure) or you wuld [sic] have been reading the apocrypha and thinking it was authentic too

Well, now we're guessing, aren't we? And why, with such realities to occupy us?

I'm grateful that they were Biblical in so many things. I enjoy Chrysostom, in Greek as well as English. I think that Chalcedon contains a marvelous confession of what the Bible teaches about Jesus.

But neither is the Word of God! God put that Word in the hands of each of His children, as I've shown you; it is our birthright. Nobody will take it from us.

But to carry on your thought: do you think "the Orthodox fathers" gave us Jesus, too? Because they made a splendid statement of Biblical Christology, in your mind does that mean that, in spite of the clear teaching of the Word of God (John 1:1; 20:28; Titus 2:13, etc. etc.) we'd all be saying He was a mere creature, if not for them? In your mind, when I say "Look! A beautiful sunrise!", am I creating the sunrise, and do I now own it, so that others have to report to me to enjoy it secondhand?

Dan