Shuttle Lost Parts Over Calif. (finally confirming what amateur skywatchers from Day One said)

ap ^ | 2/18/2002 | MARCIA DUNN

[1rudeboy]

That's not true. I remember you having your panties all in a wad because NASA hadn't confirmed the photo to be fake. Say, have they yet?

[TLBSHOW]

You have it wrong I couldn't of cared less about the picture, except to confirm that it came from a legit news site. And the fact NASA never said it was a fake at the time. Find where I ever posted it more than twice and I will eat my words. but....

Still I have not heard if it was confirmed from NASA fake or real. Good question.

[NJJ]

Where are all the NASA defenders on this thread?

We are all still here. We are still sorting out all the new information as it comes in. I don't recall defenders saying it couldn't be the foam. They were saying that the numbers didn't add up and until they do, it won't be an acceptable explanation. What someone has to do is construct a scenario that "cooks" the numbers right.

A possible example may be that an impact at a leading edge carbon-carbon joint may have damaged a seal, leading to failure.

Another possibility may be that the foam impacting the tile or leading edge surfaces may have caused impurities to have adhered to the surface and these could have created hot spots to initiate a TPS failure. During the cold war, one defense against ICBM warheads was to explode tar in front of the incoming warheads. Particles of tar would adhere to the warhead and upon reentry they would create hot spots and defeat the thermal protection shield.

Should someone come up with an explanation that makes the foam insulation numbers come up right, NASA would be the first to confirm it, and with great appreciation.

[Captain Beyond]

"Space shuttle Columbia began losing pieces over the California coast well before it disintegrated over Texas, the accident investigation board reported Tuesday, finally confirming what astronomers and amateur skywatchers have been saying from Day One."

[bonesmccoy]

thanks for the great ping.

This article confirms our conjecture and our direction in the past week on FR.

We were making similar calculations of mass and momentum based upon video. We were also making estimates of the location of fallen pieces.

Hope the NASA guys will release maps and let us go looking on their behalf.

NASA is a citizen's space program. We should be treated as partners, not excluded like back seaters.

[TLBSHOW]

"We will invite experts who are not associated with any U.S. government program who have theories or hypothesis, who have written to us or provided research documents, to express to us their opinions," said board chairman Harold Gehman Jr., a retired Navy admiral. "That way we get input ... not by any government agency."

[bonesmccoy]

May be we should show up!

[TLBSHOW]

The board said it hopes to hold its first public hearing next week, possibly on Feb. 27, to listen to non-NASA (news - web sites) experts who have theories about what destroyed the shuttle. The hearing will be held somewhere in the Houston area. The board has been criticized by some U.S. lawmakers as being too closely tied to NASA.

[TLBSHOW]

They should of listened to this guy instead they shunned him.

http://www.nasaproblems.com/

Don A. Nelson is an aerospace writer. He retired from NASA in January 1999 after 36 years with the Agency. He participated in the Gemini, Apollo, Skylab, and Space Shuttle Projects as a mission planner and operations technologist. Mr. Nelson was a supporting team member for the first rendezvous in space, first manned mission to the moon, first manned lunar landing, and the first flight of the Space Shuttle. During his last 11 years at NASA, he served as a mission operations evaluator for proposed advanced space transportation projects. He was on the initial design team for the space shuttle. He has participated in every shuttle upgrade effort until his retirement.

July 1999 - Space Shuttle Columbia delayed by hydrogen leak.

December 1999 - Space Shuttle Discovery was grounded with damaged wiring, contaminated engine, dented fuel line, and paper work errors.

January 2000 - Space Shuttle Endeavor is delayed because of wiring and computer failures.

March 2000 - Space Shuttle Atlantis main engine must be replaced because of paperwork errors.

August 2000 - Inspection of Space Shuttle Columbia reveals 3,500 defects in wiring. Wiring defects plague entire fleet.

October 2000 - The 100th flight of the space shuttle was delayed because of a misplaced safety pin and concerns with the external tank.

April 2001 - NASA failed to keep adequate watch on safety operations of a major contractor.

July 2002 - The inspector general reports that space shuttle safety program not properly managed.

April 2002 - Hydrogen leak forces scrub of the Atlantis flight.

August 2002 - Shuttle launch system grounded after fuel line cracks are discovered in all the fleet!

[Cold Heat]

I suppose we could compile our relevant data along with a synopsis to whatever e-mail address they provide and give them some contact numbers and real names.

Maybe we would get a invitation. I suppose getting access to property etc. would be a problem without some sort of credentials. Those folk who live in that area are not exactly friendly with trespassers.(From personal experience)

[TLBSHOW]

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The independent probe of the shuttle Columbia disaster will ask pointed questions about NASA's budget and whether the space agency let too many safety workers go, the head of the inquiry said on Tuesday.

Howard Gehman, who heads the Columbia Accident Investigation Board, said the panel will look at NASA's budget, which has remained essentially flat for the last decade and is around $15 billion annually.

Rather than take aim at the numbers, however, Gehman said his board will focus on the impact of tight money for the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.

"I would go after an effects-based approach -- that is, were employees laid off? Were supervisory positions eliminated? Were quality-assurance, were risk management people laid off? -- rather than the budget number," Gehman said at a televised briefing.

"We'll see where that leads us," he said.

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/reuters20030218_520.html

[Cold Heat]

This is likely coming from the people at Michoud, who make the tank. They have stated that the quality control has suffered in recent years.

One supervisor started a reward program for noted discrepancies. They discovered that people were creating discrepancies in order to collect the rewards. Usually a t-shirt or something.

The supervisor stated that "it was amazing what people would do for a T-shirt".

[Joe Hadenuf]

Oh man.......

[Cold Heat]

Bruce Wright, a quality assurance supervisor who spent more than 22 years at Lockheed, believes he inspected the external fuel tank that helped launch Columbia.

He said he noted "bare metal'' during his 2000 inspection of the bi-pod area, the place where the shuttle is connected to the external tank by two pod-like legs. That is the spot where foam came off the Columbia at launch.

The "concern was the primer, that it was not a continuous job and was not fully covering the bare metal,'' he said.

Wright said the bare metal he noticed came at a stage where it was easily repaired, and that sometimes spots are intentionally left bare in order to install nuts and bolts and other necessary hardware.

"But the primer applied had not fully covered the bare metal. They had some failures which is not normal because unless the primer is applied correctly, the foam will eat the aluminum,'' he said.

When mistakes were made, the company sometimes avoided filing discrepancy reports to NASA, some inspectors said.

SNIP


Here is a bit more from Michoud.

[Captain Beyond]

Yeah it was really cool how it turned out for FR. Congratulations to Leadpenny and to you for sticking to your guns on this one and having a really thick skin. You were taking some serious slings and arrows. Besides the two long threads I think there were a total of 8 threads that night and you were really catching heat on all of them and on into the next day. I hope some of the articles I sent helped you out.

[Joe Hadenuf]

When mistakes were made, the company sometimes avoided filing discrepancy reports to NASA, some inspectors said.

This does not surprise me......

[Cold Heat]

The Michoud facility is in my old stomping grounds. I never worked for them, but drank plenty of beers with some of the habds there. They were not a happy lot, but were certainly well paid for it.

[Cold Heat]

habds=hands...........sheesh, goin to bed now.

[lonewacko_dot_com]

I occasionally go out to SoCal's mountains. Is there a map showing where parts might have fallen, so I can know if I should look around where I go?

[Captain Beyond]

My hat is off to you. You are a better man than most. I could not believe how some people were acting over this. They were so adamant that the shuttle could not have broken up over California. What I think happen was TLBSHOW posted the letter from Don Nelson to President Bush outlining his problems with the shuttle program. The letter did not bash W at all. But out of fear of criticism of Bush and that somehow this would link W to the Columbia accident the Bushbots went into overdrive with their spin machine when there was no need to spin at all. First of all no main stream politician was going to commit political suicide by blaming the President for the Columbia accident. The American public would not stand for it. Secondly everyone knows that the President does not, nor is expected to, oversee the shuttle liftoff and retrieval. All he can do is rely on his advisers and the personal at NASA to do the best jobs that they can. Unless it is a mission he has authorized personally or he has vital information in his hands that there is problem he is not going to be involved in the day to day operations of NASA.

After the Don Nelson letter posting no matter what TLBSHOW said he was dogged piled. Most of the threads after that were nothing but flame wars with some good articles and observations about the shuttle being posted on them. But one had to sort through a lot of crap to find them.