Why the sympathy for the South?

2/18/2003 | truthsearcher

[Truthsearcher]

Why the sympathy for the South?

[Polybius]

Obviously the contemporaries who fought against slavery were well aware of its immorality.

Not necessarily. Some who fought against slavery merely saw it as a political matter:

"I never was an abolitionist, not even what could be called anti-slavery, but I try to judge fairly and honestly and it became patent in my mind early in the rebellion that the North and South could never live at peace with each other except as one nation, and that without slavery. As anxious as I am to see peace established, I would not therefore be willing to see any settlement until the question is forever settled." ..... Ulysses S, Grant. August 30, 1863, in a letter to Elihu Washburne.

Some who fought to defend their States between 1861-1865 saw slavery as a moral and political evil:

There are few, I believe, in this enlightened age, who will not acknowledge that slavery as an institution is a moral and political evil. It is idle to expatiate on its disadvantages. I think it is a greater evil to the white than to the colored race......Robert E. Lee letter dated December 27, 1856:

[takenoprisoner]

creditability

Same as credit worthy?

[takenoprisoner]

and that nearly twice as many popular votes were cast for others.

Then South Carolina p'oed seceded.

[takenoprisoner]

Civil War not fought over slavery

[Truthsearcher]

"Abortion? Abortion is just a term for a medical procedure that is, most often, used to commit murder. In America slavery was once legal but most often argued as immoral, but in America today, abortion too is legal, but is most often argued as..moral."

That is a play on words, I see no difference in the two debates, the fact that the issue is debated means that there are two groups aruging over the morality of the issue, there are just as many people who argued for the immorality of abortion as those who argue for its morality.

To me the southern states who argue that they were being oppressed into giving up slavery is no different from the woman arguing that the government would be oppression her by forcing her to carry the child to term.

[turbojugend]

I dunno. Perhaps the fact that Lincoln had no right to do what he did in enforcing union and consolidation via military and dictatorial means. Since you want to write off states' rights so badly, answer me this: what in the constitution says that once in the union, a state may never leave?

[jrushing]

You wonder why there is sympathy for us? We fought the good fight. We fought for what we believed in even if it was (considered?) wrong. We have been ridiculed by people of the north for over 140 years. We have been called every sort of despicable name that you can think of but we still stand tall. We are strong people. We are survivors. We have built our region from devastation to a huge economic power. We still respect our elders, we still say "yes mamm & yes sir." We together, black & white, have produced some of the greatest heroes, poets, musicians, writers, & others in this country. Yes, we still have our stars & bars but we are quick to raise up the Stars & Stripes & stand behind our Country. We are Americans First but you have to remember that we are also Southerners. Our country fought against the USA. We have relatives who died fighting. We were defeated and occupied. We are proud of who we are. We don't want sympathy but we do generate respect.
Maybe you have confused sympathy with Respect.

[ItisaReligionofPeace]

Why sympathy for the South? Because many of us are from the south, had ancestors who fought for the south and understand that the civil war wasn't entirely about slavery, not to mention that the North was quite racist itself. That's all.

[ItisaReligionofPeace]

I had two great great grandfathers who fought for the south. Both were dirt farmers. Had nothing to do with slavery. Heck, General Lee disagreed with slavery! He chose to fight for his homeland though. My grandmother has told me about her grandfather (who fought in the war). It really wasn't that long ago. In fact, my old man had Florida's last Confederate widow speak at his school when he was a youngster.

[eddie willers]

One only has to look at the color-coded Presidential election maps over the last two decades to realize that this nation probably would have been better off if the Union had lost the Civil War. LOL.

LOL indeed!

[thinktwice]

"Jubal Early -- Almost took Washington after leading a lightning cavalry expedition up the Shenandoah Valley."

Jubal Early kicked ass and took the entire Shenandoah valley during that expedition, and the only thing between him and Lincoln in the White House were union reinforcements from Richmond that got there in the nick of time. That's history you can verify for yourself.

Lincoln's first seven commanding Union Generals were largely inept, and then Lincoln came up with Sherman and Grant.

[takenoprisoner]

"I had a dream the other night that all the babies prevented by the Pill suddenly showed up....boy, were they pissed! "

Steven Wright

[thinktwice]

how do you except (sic) any creditability

It's my habit to allow others to judge as to who is right, you or me.

[willabeth]

It is ridiculous to quote Exodus to "explain" what you think is the South's view on slavery. As a great-grand-daughter, -neice, -cousin, of Confederate soldiers, it is from their stories passed down to my grandparents which tell the truth.

My ancestors were not anything more than property owners. They lived by the land and believed in little more than God and homeland. All of my southern friends and relatives will profess the same sentiments, "our relatives never owned slaves, they were too poor,". But did they fight for their land? Yes, they did.

Whether or not they believed in the right of one man to own another is not clear because they did not own slaves. However, they saw the act of the Union to 'invade' their land as an act of aggression. In their limited view, they were acting on behalf of the protection of their home and family. It was chilvalry, more than love of their state which led them to enlist and defend their home.

Machismo was also a passionate reason to fight and defeat the Union. There are so many things which play into the reason why Southerners fought in the Confederacy. It was Lincoln who had to create a moral reason for the war. The Union was no more against slavery than the average poor white Southerner.

It would have been better for everyone if Jefferson had kept his scribbled out decree in the constitution to end slavery. Slavery had already ended in parts of the world but continued well after the Civil War in others. There is no "Southerner" alive today that does not agree that slavery was/is wrong and damaged our country beyond repair even to this day.

[jlogajan]

Why did South Carolina secede one month after Lincoln was elected?

"As early as 1858, the ongoing conflict between the North and South over the issue of slavery had led Southern leadership to discuss a unified separation from the United States. By 1860, the majority of the slave states were publicly threatening secession if the Republicans, the anti-slavery party, were elected to the presidency. Following Lincoln's victory over the divided Democratic Party on November 7, South Carolina immediately initiated secession proceedings and, on December 20, its legislature passed the "Ordinance of Secession," which declared that "the Union now subsisting between South Carolina and other states, under the name of the United States of America, is hereby dissolved." After the declaration, South Carolina set about seizing forts, arsenals, and other strategic locations within the state."

"When Abraham Lincoln was inaugurated on March 4, 1861, six more states (Mississippi [1/9], Florida [1/10], Alabama [1/11], Georgia [1/19], Louisiana [1/26], Texas [2/1]) had formally seceded from the Union, and federal troops held only Fort Sumter in South Carolina, Fort Pickens off the Florida coast, and a handful of minor outposts in the South. On April 12, 1861, the American Civil War began when Confederate shore batteries under General P. G. T. Beauregard opened fire on Fort Sumter in South Carolina's Charleston Harbor."

[FreedomCalls]

I suspect that Lincoln ran stronger in the South than is generally acknowledged.

Lincoln received 0, zero, none, not one, nada, nil individual, personal, or popular vote in the following states: Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, and South Carolina. In Virginia he received 1,887 votes (1.1% of Virginia's total), but they were from the northern part of the state (which became West "by God" Virginia after the war).

Imagine a President getting elected who gets not one vote in your region and you harbor strong feelings that he is about to circumvent the Constitution and trample on your rights. Just look at those who still claim Bush is an illegitimate President for not winning the popular vote. Imagine how they would feel had Bush not gotten an single popular vote in all the states of the Northeast, not one in California and none in Oregon and still won the election.

Here is the site with all the Presidential election results.

http://www.uselectionatlas.org/

[takenoprisoner]

There were abolutionists in both the north and south. Lincoln was not an abolutionist. Try again.

[thinktwice]

don't think most of the indentured servants would tell a voluntary story. Many were put into the system by the courts and anyone who could get paid for providing labor.

You're right! Self servitude was only a part of it.

My GGG Grandpa arrived in New Orleans with parents that soon died. That made hie and his siblings wards of the court, and the court named an "Honorable" local citizen as their guardian. A few years later, all those kids were split up, my GGG Grandpa was twelve, and census records have him living in a house with one 35 year old French woman that owned the place, that woman's 18 year old daughter, ten other females aged 14 to 20, and one 25 year old male "driver."

Let's face it, it was a whore house.

Would anyone care to guess that "guardian's" religion?

[jlogajan]

he is about to circumvent the Constitution and trample on your rights.

Yeah, I get all teary eyed when slave holders talk about their "rights" being trampled.

[davetex]

How do you spell series?