[First_Salute]

This is a serious mistake; it's a repeat of what secured in many Germans' minds, the chance that nationalizing socialism was a risk they would have to take.

The Germans have every right to say no to our adventures ... as long as they stay out of the way.

But to try and squeeze the Germans economically, when they are already facing hard times, is poor planning; and that is an understatement.

The Germans have been very good allies, and they do not merit any disrespect nor economic tryst.

[Atchafalaya]

You are with us or......

[Arkinsaw]

The Germans have been very good allies, and they do not merit any disrespect nor economic tryst.

The administration stated the other day that they felt that German foreign policy under Schroeder is a fluke that was rejected at the recent State level elections. When the Germans elect a responsible leadership and act as allies then I am sure all this will be forgotten. But until then....

[Iwentsouth]

I think the German people electing that bastard , when he ran on a America sucks platform was the biggest mistake Germans did.

They deserve anything that happens to them. Germans are not good allies.

Hell they even hated us when the Berlin Wall was still up and our troops were willing to die for there socialist asses.

[PhiKapMom]

The Germans have been very good allies, and they do not merit any disrespect nor economic tryst.

Tell that to Turkey who they are turning down when Turkey asked for the help of NATO (BTW Germany and France are only two countries but so far are threatening to veto any help). As long as Schroeder remains in power, then they are getting what they deserve. The German people voted for the man and he ran on an Anti-American/Anti-Bush platform so they knew exactly what he stood for.

For us to pour any more money into our bases would be just flat out dumb since we don't know when/if Schroeder is going to tell us to take our troops and leave. We do not want to upgrade anything and should be looking around at other countries.

There is an old saying Those who ignore the lessons of history are bound to repeat them. Well Germany/France should know better than anyone what happens when you appease a dictator!

[dixiechick2000]

"The Germans have every right to say no to our adventures ... as long as they stay out of the way."

They are very much IN our way, and show no signs of retreat.

[bayareablues]

You're absolutely right, they are free to take a stand on Iraq either way. We're also free to decide where to base are troops, are we not? Maybe it's time to share some of these contracts with our other buddies in eastern Europe. I guess I also don't see us as being responsible to shore up the German economy.

[MarkDel]

First Salute,

You make an interesting point here, but your main contention that "Germany has been a good ally" is just not true. Germany has been an ally of convenience since the end of World War II and our relationship has played out like this:

Stage 1: Germans have no choice but to be our "friends" as they lost the war and we are administering their country, at least the Western half, but more on that later.

Stage 2: The US pumps massive dollars into rebuilding Germany, so the German public has no overt reason to be anti-american, though there is still underlying resentment over the division of the country and the lack of autonomy.

Stage 3: West Germany becomes a "real country" again and is FORCED to be a major ally of the United States because the Soviet dominated East Germany is a major threat to their well being. The US continues to keep major arms and troops in the new West Germany.

Stage 4: For a couple decades, the West Germans play kiss ass with us so the Soviets won't invade them. While they are doing this, German academics begin brainwashing entire generations with pro-socialist, pro-marxist philosophy which increases West German sympathy towards East Germany and invigorates the movement towards re-unification.

Stage 5: By the 1970's, things are starting to "fall back to normal" in Germany as nationalism is on the rise, anti-semitism is becoming "in vogue" again and the anti-american rumblings are become more frequent. Case in point...it's a pretty good bet that Muslim Terrorists received major help from native Germans in pulling off the murder of Israeli athletes at the 1972 Olympic Games in Munich, Germany.

Stage 6: West German anti-americanism reaches a fever pitch with the Ronald Reagan Presidency from 1981-1988. Reagan takes a hard-line approach with the Soviets and increases US presence in West Germany both in terms of weapons and troop deployment. West Germans react with NASTY anti-americanism as the new "militant pacifist" elements become more and more prevalent.

Stage 7: Thanks to Reagan's policies, the Soviet Union falls and eventually this leads to the reunification of Germany. Germans ignore the obvious and give the US and Reagan ZERO credit, choosing instead to focus on how the Soviet Union was doomed fof failure...conveniently forgetting this fact as they themselves conitinue to stampede towards a more socialistic/marxist state.

Stage 8: Germany spends the 1990's convincing themselves that European decline can be overcome through the formation of a socialistic E.U. where economics and a World Court System will further peace and justice in the world. They now view the US not as a convenient but disliked ally, but they come to view the US as the primary threat to their new utopian Europe...they of course conveniently forget the fact that their socialist government spends NOTHING on national defense, and without the US, Germany would lose a war to the New York City Police Department.

Stage 9: With anti-americanism now an "art form" among the rank and file Germans, unscrupulous politicians use this sentiment for selfish reasons to draw attention away from SEVERE short term and even worse long term domestic problems. Silly immigration laws have also left Germany with a massive, ever increasing Muslim population which represents a disproportionate amount of the crime in that country, as their only useful purpose in society seems to be providing cheap sexual thrills for disgracefully slutty German women. Fear of Muslim anger on the streets contributes to their anti-american stand, much as it does in France. Of course, Germans do share one common trait with their new Muslim brothers...they'd like to kill every Jewish person they lay eyes on.

Stage 10: The German government incorrectly forecasts that anything that makes the US stronger, makes Germany weaker over the long haul...hence the opposition to US success in the Middle East.

And this is we where stand today...NOW PLEASE TELL ME HOW IN THE HELL THESE GUYS HAVE EVER, EVER BEEN A GOOD ALLY???

[snopercod]

Why do we still station American troops there? The original reason for it no longer exits, and the Germans resent it.

[F16Fighter]

"But to try and squeeze the Germans economically, when they are already facing hard times, is poor planning; and that is an understatement."

The German people AND their government have spoken -- it is THEY who've made the decision for the U.S. that our services are no longer required.

And anyway, isn't it time for German taxpayers to fund their own defense instead of you and I?

[Stand Watch Listen]

Thanks very much for the heads-up...appreciate it.