BREAKING: NBC News finds Jan 30 NASA Memo showing serious concern about tile damage!

NBC News | February 3, 2003 | Jay Barbree

[Timesink]

Developing. Watch MSNBC for latest. Internal memo shows some engineers believe there was up to a 7 1/2-inch gash from the foam breakoff at launch. Memo was serious enough to go out to all NASA centers two days before disaster.

[Burr5]

"Although we expected tile damage, there was absolutely nothing we could do about it." I don't know about you, but that excuse doesn't fly in my book.


I agree with you there. The sanctimonious shrieks from members of NASA's "extended family" can rain down on me till the cows come home, but I'll bet my ass that something could have been done to save these people if NASA knew of the situation. Remember all the extraordinary improvisation during Apollo 13?

A rescue mission involving Endeavor or Atlantis or Discovery couldn't have been attempted? I don't buy it.

[Southflanknorthpawsis]

[TLBSHOW]

NASA Discounted Damage to Shuttle Tiles

SPACE CENTER, Houston - While Columbia was still in orbit, NASA's "best and brightest" minds analyzed the potential damage done to its thermal tiles by a piece of debris during liftoff and concluded that the flight was in no danger, agency officials said Monday.

snip

The shuttle broke up 39 miles over Texas and fell to Earth just as it was experiencing maximum re-entry heat of 3,000 degrees. All seven astronauts aboard perished.


http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=624&ncid=716&e=1&u=/ap/20030203/ap_on_sc/shuttle_investigation

Looks like they were way wrong again.

[Axenolith]

I'll be comfortable with that conclusion as long as its demonstrated that there isn't a bunch of CYA shenanigans taking place...

[oldcomputerguy]

giving NASA the respect and loyalty they deserve from us at this dark hour. And that is heartening.

NASA's abilities are judged on performance. They have just had a failure. If it turns out to be a foam problem, it is then a problem they have known about for years and may in fact have been excerbated by a polically correct decision to use an "environmentally friendly' foam.

Foam has sripped of at least 6 and maybe 8, I can't recall from the paper this morning, previous flights. If this is the problem, it is negligence in my book, but given the BBers propensity to forgive incredible incompetence, I expect the culprits(if there are some) will be promoted.

[hattend]

They don't have much more oxygen than what is required for the mission and maybe a week of weather diverts and they didn't have the maneuvering fuel to get them to the ISS. Its in a much different orbit based on what I've read.

It isn't like a TV movie where the Orbital Manuevering thrusters are going all the time with huge orbital direction changes.

Not to sound heartless, but if the tiles were compromised, this crew was either going to asphyxiate or end quickly in a ball of flame.

They all knew the risks. May they rest in peace.

[Burr5]

Re: post #42.....

That article sure sounds like a litany of excuses to me. Best to just sit on our hands and hope our crossed fingers don't bruise the asses that we're so busy trying to cover.

On the other hand, there's NO denying that there WERE options available. If, and this is a big IF, NASA has become this timid and blame-averse (i.e., they knew all along and tried nothing) then Ron Howard won't be making movies about any of the agency's management any time soon.

[justshe]

[Southflanknorthpawsis]

I was thumbing through the "T"s in the dictionary and.......well....this turned up.

[Focault's Pendulum]

"but I think NASA had no choice but to roll the dice....and they lost." I think that captures it pretty well.

It was just a thought as was this.....

We Roll The Dice

It sounds rather cold,,,but it seems to be what it is.

Just my thoughts...is all.

[TLBSHOW]

Shares of Space Shuttle Contractors Fall

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030203/bs_nm/shuttle_aerospace_stocks_dc_1

[oldcomputerguy]

Her is some backgound on the foam and the external fuel
tank.
http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/frontpage/index.ssf?/base/news-0/104425531437671.xml

[Clara Lou]

I am not in charge but I see major problems at NASA for years!
You do an awful lot of useless braying, don't you?

[don-o]

This is going to sound cold....but I think NASA had no choice but to roll the dice....and they lost.

Cold or not, it is right on the money. I posted exactly the same on some other post.

There is an "abort" contingency, I believe. In a short time before achieving orbit, that can head for Morroco or somewhere.

But, the broken foam was not even analyzed until the next day.

Foam falls off on every launch and I heard Dittemore say that the possibility of it damaging the orbiter had been looked at and considered an acceptable risk. (My words, not his.)

Large point for those of us who live in the Real World, is that this is risky business. As was the exploration of the New World and the Winning of the West - USA.

This whining, snivelling and hand-wringing attitude, "Why did someone not do something?" is just so PC, I can't stand it.

OTOH, I recognize that there are systemic shortcomings in the whole program. On yet another thread, I agreed that the way to go is encouraging privatization of space exploration.

[BureaucratusMaximus]

Go ahead and assocaite yourself with Todd; he's so well thought of here.

WTH is that supposed to mean? There is documented evidence of the tile and foam problem since 1997...nothing improved and it seemed as if the whole situation was an accident waiting to happen...and it did...typical government. That by itself is incompetence in my book. If the state expects to collect taxes from me, then I expect competence, accountability, and integrity from government...especially where peoples lives are at stake. I have a right to be pissed off about that. All TBL did was try to point that out.(or at least that was the way I interpreted it) My association of TBL ends there. It seems that your problem is your denial of this incompetence, because it will serve as a black spot of GWB administration (which it shouldnt, the media will have a field day with it for sure...and that stinks)...somehow you don't want to accept that, and deny this and every other incompetence of the state simply because GWB is Republican and president. Thats not reasonable.

Do you consider your views and opinions gifts from God, too?

Don't be silly, in the big scheme of things my views and opinions mean nothing; I am a gift of God as you are...along with every other human being. I'll heed His opinions and views before my own anyday.

[jiggyboy]

I read in the paper this morning that the Columbia had the "old" fuel tank -- much heavier than what they are using now. The new super-light fuel tank was developed so that a shuttle would be able to reach the station. So that option would have been out in this case.

[KneelBeforeZod]

that picture isn't from the shuttle. unless you can explain how that part doesn't match anything on the shuttle, and why they are so far from the earth in that picture.

[justshe]

ROFL!

[TankerKC]

Do you just take the word of anyone?

What if I said that I have been in the Air Force for 22 years and then told you some very specific technical information about the F-34. Would you ask me further about my background, or just take it for granted that what I said was true?

It is natural to wonder. Some specifics would be nice. I think my questions are reasonable.

[TLBSHOW]

Can you explain any of your posts on this thread?

What I see is all of them say zip zero nothing. You have added nothing to this thread. Now there was a problem here and someone made the call to gamble the lives of 7 people, who was it? Who made the call? At NASA!

Don Nelson is a hero for trying to save these people.