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Sorry for all the 8212s ... it's an FR posting bug.
1 posted on 01/18/2003 3:00:52 PM PST by Timesink
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2 posted on 01/18/2003 3:02:06 PM PST by Support Free Republic (Your support keeps Free Republic going strong!)
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To: Timesink
Bump
3 posted on 01/18/2003 3:04:11 PM PST by Fiddlstix (Tag Line Service Center: FREE Tag Line with Every Monthly Donation to FR. Get Yours. Inquire Within)
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To: Timesink
Yikes! I'm a liberal Democrat trapped in a Freeper's body!
4 posted on 01/18/2003 3:08:58 PM PST by billorites
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To: Timesink
bump
5 posted on 01/18/2003 3:09:03 PM PST by The Obstinate Insomniac (Oppose Constitutional Verbicide)
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To: Timesink
I've long held that modern Americans vote their sex lives more so than their wallets; seems I was right..
7 posted on 01/18/2003 3:12:37 PM PST by AntiGuv (™)
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To: Timesink
So this is to say that if Republicans take the approach that the government has no business in individuals bedrooms then we will win all national elections by a landslide.

I can live with that.
8 posted on 01/18/2003 3:15:43 PM PST by MedicalMess
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To: Timesink

This article is a case where someone takes a massive leap in logic to explain events. Many in the US public backed Clinton in 98 because of the stock market, and even in 2000, Gore was boosted by probably 2% by Americans who had fatter wallets who did not want to "rock the boat".

That aside, one difference between Red state and blue state america is the people in the Red states tend to have more children, like Europe, the blue states dominated by secular humanism, the familes are having few if any, children.

As for immigration, as the Democratic party becomes more hostile towrds religion, and as more conservative Catholic bishops gain more power in the US(The ones who reject the seamless garment of life trash and who put the peace & justice crowd in their place), then many immigrants will vote for the GOP.


Lastly and most importantly, as the filures of secular humanism become more blatant, people are going to have to re asses their views on Christianity.
11 posted on 01/18/2003 3:24:51 PM PST by JNB
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To: Timesink
Do you believe homosexuality is morally wrong?

Its kinda sick and they seem prone to do bad things.

Do you ever personally look at pornography?

Yes.

Would you look down on someone who had an affair while married?

In most circumstances. Do you believe sex before marriage is morally wrong?

No.

The fifth question was whether religion was very important in the voter's life.

Not organized religion per se.

13 posted on 01/18/2003 3:32:23 PM PST by weikel
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To: Timesink
BTW race and gender are the biggest indicators. White males middle class or higher almost never vote dem.
15 posted on 01/18/2003 3:35:29 PM PST by weikel
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To: Timesink
I do not really buy the writer's hypothesis. On the other hand, I have no basis for questioning his statistics.

My dubious response if premised rather on the fact that I see Republican clumsiness, rather than the moral issues, per se, as a major factor in these reactions. Had we had more skilled spokesmen, who understood what is really essential and what is not, in terms of traditional sexual values, and discussed the underlying issues from that vantage point, many who reacted negatively to what they saw as a repressive attitude, would not have done so.

It is too late to go into this at great length at this time. My own views on sex and sexual conduct are reflected in my writing; and while on the surface may seem too liberal for some of my fellow Conservatives; properly understood, are really more Conservative than almost anyone else's. (See, for example, The Feminist Absurdity, for example.)

Let me, however, for the sake of brevity, simply suggest what the Republican response to the five inquiries should have been:

Do you believe homosexuality is morally wrong?

Most certainly. However, I do not believe it to be the function of Government to go out of its way to harass people suspected of certain private practices with other adults. On the other hand, we cannot accept the studied campaign in the media and entertainment industry, to make us accept homosexuality as normal. [Put the emphasis where it should be, on who is actually picking on whom there.]

Do you ever personally look at pornography?

My viewing habits, as yours, are no one's business but my own. However, I think Society does need to act to protect children obtaining distorted images, at ages when they have no basis on which to judge or really understand what they are seeing. Society has always acted to protect the innocent, and that means some strictures on what may be shown where and to whom.

Would you look down on someone who had an affair while married?

I ascribe to the policy of trying not to judge the personal lives of other people, where their actions do not involve me. As a gentleman, I really do not want to know anything which could compromise the reputation of any woman (whether wife or mistress). That does not mean that I approve of particular conduct. It does mean that I believe in a non-judgmental privacy. What the media appear to be promoting, of course, is a whole other subject.

Do you believe sex before marriage is morally wrong?

I am not a hypocrite. Nor have I ever judged the girls who accommodate bachelors by a harsher judgment than those bachelors. On the other hand, there are valid moral reasons for a double standard, which reflect both natural and moral concerns--both as to the birth of children and the strength of the marital institution--which is vital to a healthy society. It is just not for me to be judgmental of any individual. (On the other hand, I take a very negative view of people having children out of wedlock, and expecting others to support them.)

The fifth question was whether religion was very important in the voter's life.

Yes. But I do not judge those, who feel that they cannot believe strongly in anything they cannot see.

I realize that my answers will seem a gross "cop out" to some. But they reflect not only my personal tolerance, but an understanding of where Government in a free society can and cannot go. I can assure you, also, because they are indeed my responses, that I have no problem with expressing them and explaining them to those whom the writer suggests would otherwise reject the more Conservative candidate.

William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site

20 posted on 01/18/2003 3:56:25 PM PST by Ohioan
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To: Timesink
The demographic reality is that as currently constituted, liberal Blue America is growing and conservative Red America is in decline.

I seriously question that. If it's so, why is sexual experience among teens being curtailed? Why is the number of abortions on the decline? And why is popular enthuasiasm for abortion so obviously on the downside? I know that my wife and I vote Republican because we were so repulsed by the excesses in which our generation indulged. I can't help but think that some of those "experienced" folk whom the author cites may likewise question the wisdom of what they did when they were less mature.

21 posted on 01/18/2003 4:05:09 PM PST by madprof98
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To: Timesink
We either value morality or we cease to exist. That doesn't have to mean we toss offenders in jail. But neither should we stay neutral. Embarrassment and shame for adultery, promiscuity, an appetite for porn, or whatever is as valuable as embarrassment and shame for cheating and lying. Virtue in all its forms should be valued by our society. In fact it MUST be valued or our end is near.

"Public virtue cannot exist in a nation without private virtue, and public virtue is the only foundation of republics." -John Adams

"God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure if we have removed their only firm basis: a conviction in the minds of men that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever." -Thomas Jefferson

"We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God." -James Madison

"A general dissolution of the principles and manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America than the whole force of the common enemy.... While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but once they lose their virtue, they will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader.... If virtue and knowledge are diffused among the people, they will never be enslaved. This will be their great security." -Samuel Adams

"Your supposed right to destroy yourself infringes on my right to pursue happiness, being sad at having to sit by and watch people needlessly suffer and die. When you abrogate the unalienable right to life, doing so abrogates my unalienble right to pursue happiness, being sad at watching people needlessly suffer and die." -The Forecastle

"[N]either the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt. He therefore is the truest friend of the liberty of his country who tries most to promote its virtue, and who, so far as his power and influence extend, will not suffer a man to be chosen onto any office of power and trust who is not a wise and virtuous man." -Samuel Adams

"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom...go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels nor arms. May your chains set lightly upon you and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." -Samuel Adams

"Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants." -William Penn

"Bad men cannot make good citizens. It is when a people forget God that tyrants forge their chains. A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, is incompatible with freedom. No free government, or the blessings of liberty, can be preserved to any people but by a firm adherence to justice, moderation, temperance, frugality, and virtue; and by a frequent recurrence to fundamental principles." -Patrick Henry

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined," -Patrick Henry

"Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed, if so celestial an article as Freedom should not be highly rated." -Thomas Paine; 1776

"[I]f we and our posterity reject religious instruction and authority, violate the rules of eternal justice, trifle with the injunctions of morality, and recklessly destroy the political constitution which holds us together, no man can tell how sudden a catastrophe may overwhelm us, that shall bury all our glory in profound obscurity." -Daniel Webster

"No country upon earth ever had it more in its power to attain blessings. Much to be regretted indeed would it be, were we to depart from the road which Providence has pointed us to, so plainly; I cannot believe it will ever come to pass. The Great Governor of the Universe has led us too long and too far to forsake us in the midst of it. We may, now and then, get bewildered; but I hope and trust that there is good sense and virtue enough left to recover the right path. " -George Washington

"Out of every hundred new ideas ninety-nine or more will probably be inferior to the traditional responses which they propose to replace. No one man, however brilliant or well-informed, can come in one lifetime to such fullness of understanding as to safely judge and dismiss the customs or institutions of his society, for these are the wisdom of generations after centuries of experiment in the laboratory of history." -- Will and Ariel Durant

23 posted on 01/18/2003 4:21:47 PM PST by RAT Patrol
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To: Timesink
Another recent post reminds us that it was just five short years ago that the Lewinsky mess came to light. I think many Americans at that time began to see the light about how morally degenerate this country had become. It was no blinding flash, of course, and many commentators brushed it off with "It's only sex, so let's move on." But I know it brought some people around.
"It felt like I was in the Roman Colosseum."- Patricia Heaton

26 posted on 01/18/2003 4:56:12 PM PST by madprof98
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To: Timesink
But should war fade into the background, or as soon as emboldened congressional Republicans begin moving to restrict Americans' sexual autonomy, the currently weakened Democratic Party will be positioned to push back with the kind of vitality that propelled Bill Clinton to victory in 1992 and 1996.

Just what kind of restrictions against Americans' sexual automony are Republicans going to persue at the national level?

Even some of the most hard-core social conservatives on this site don't support sex laws on the national level, wanting them instead on a state level. You could arguably point to Federal anti-abortion laws, but those only concern sex in a very indirect way, and opinions are still split pretty evenly in this country on that matter.

30 posted on 01/18/2003 9:46:30 PM PST by timm22
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To: Timesink
Meanwhile, the four percent of voters who consider themselves "upper-class" like Ted Kennedy, Frank Corzine, Jay Reckefeller, et al went for Gore by 56 to 39 percent.
. . . because the Republican Party is the party not of the rich but of the middle class.

31 posted on 01/19/2003 6:57:15 AM PST by conservatism_IS_compassion
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