White House promises 'smoking gun intelligence'

The Daily Telegraph ^ | January 16, 2003 | Toby Harnden

[MadIvan]

White House officials have reassured Republicans by signalling that America and Britain are prepared to release powerful intelligence evidence to cement the case for war against Iraq.

Andy Card, the White House chief of staff, and Karl Rove, President George W Bush's chief political strategist, have each indicated privately that the administration has proof that Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction.

Mr Card received blunt warnings from conservative Republican senators last week that Mr Bush had to produce a much more concrete case for war if he hoped to keep public support.

Senator Kit Bond of Missouri said more information should be released and asked: "What is the connection between Iraq and al-Qa'eda?" According to sources at the private meeting, Mr Card is understood to have urged him: "Don't worry."

Mr Rove is believed to have used similar language during private briefings to politicians in Washington.

He strongly suggested that the Bush administration already possesses a piece of intelligence from the CIA or MI6 that would amount to the "smoking gun" critics are calling for.

[The Great Satan]

Thank you but YOU AIN'T SEEN NOTHING, YET!

That's right. I ain't seen nothing. Just one no-name poster.

[Wordsmith]

Would you please sum up your evidence that the anthrax murders were the intentional work of US Government personnel?

I'm another freeper in agreement with TGS. I've looked at this quite closely over the past year, and my work involves me in professional discussions about state and local bioterrorism emergency preparedness. TGS, among others here, has laid down his argument quite persuasively. I'd like to hear yours.

[Allan]

But, it's really hard to find anybody who takes the "rogue scientist" story seriously these days.
Won't one of you please take poor niman under your wing and give him some verbal encouragement?

I think I have a volunteer for you.

[PISANO]

I for one do NOT understand when,how or why a "SMOKING GUN" became the mantra of the press? Now it seems as though the administration has fallen into this trap. Nothing....repeat NOTHING will satisfy those who are against us attacking IRAQ. No amount of EVIDENCE will suffice. There will always be an OUT.

That being said; The SIMPLE fact us this: IRAQ UNCONDITIONALLY SURRENDERED to end the Gulf War. Stipulations and demands were made that HAVE BEEN BROKEN!! That ALONE is enough to attack. Nothing else is necessary.

Would anyone have critized the US for resuming hostilities IF the Japanese did NOT adhere to all the surrender terms? Enough is enough.....attack IRAQ NOW, today and forget the UN and the entire "SHOW ME THE PROOF; GIVE ME THE SMOKING GUN crowd!

[Sacajaweau]

Well, niman.

If it happened like you wish it happened, you're suggesting only one person. Since it is unlikely that it would have been weaponized in OUR labs, he had to steal the anthrax and account for it, build a lab, weaponize the anthrax, find that SPECIAL paper that they used for the letters, Xerox the letters, pick up the pre-paid envelopes at the post office, figure out what statement he wanted to write, bring the letters to the mailbox where NO ONE would recognize him, destroy a lab, go to a mailbox a SECOND time where NO ONE would recognize him. He would have to have few attachments as people would miss him and I'd say all these scientists are TOO accountable to be this out of line. The best I could agree with you was that a scientist stole some anthrax and passed it on. But that seems ridiculous, too since it has been apparently been well distributed to labs all over the world and why contact a US scientist when the stuff can be gotten so easily elsewhere without raising suspicions of the future USA attack.

And further, if he wrote 9-11 in the letters, it's a reasonable assumption that he knew 9-11 was coming and was to mail the first set of letters exactly one week after 9-11 on 9-18 and the next batch, three weeks later...all three events occuring on a Tuesday.

No one has ever figured out how Steven, Nyugen and Lundgren picked up "inhalational" anthrax and all three cases are speculation.

The guys a scientist and can't spell penicillin??? and he's working with anthrax. A ploy!! Not necessary!! Why mention it at all EXCEPTING that the writer (printer) was ON Penicillin. Sounds more like something the "sniper" would write more than a USA scientist. Noticed the writing in the Anthrax letters had exceptional spaces between the words...just like the "sniper's" letter. Were they the "runners" for the Anthrax. It's what they do best!!

[Nick Danger]

Do we have any takers for the theory that the anthrax letters were actually a US-sponsored terrorist attack on itself?

Not here. I don't disagree with you one bit about where the anthrax came from. But I do disagree about Bush's willingness to do something about it. Everything I see in Bush's behavior tells me that this is a big-picture guy who can see where this leads if he leaves it to fester. My read is that this guy will take the hit now -- however bad it might be -- than literally doom the United States.

I think the reason Saddam is still alive 18 months after knocking down our buildings is that it has taken 18 months to figure how to do this in a way that minimizes the risk of getting some 6- or 7-figure number of Americans killed. As you very correctly point out, this is a highly dangerous thing to try to do. It has to be executed on about six levels -- here, in Iraq, on the seas, in the air -- at a very high level of precision, and all at once... or all Hell will break loose.

But my reading of Bush is that he will do the thing that Clinton would not do: he will confront the damned thing and get it out of our future... because that's just the kind of guy he is.

I may well die in the thing; I live about five miles from the White House. We'll all know soon enough. I don't think it's weeks away; I think it's sooner than that. I think surprise has to be part of it, and this long minuet we're doing with the aircraft carriers and the troop movements and the UN inspectors is eye candy that will not run to scheduled completion.

[Allan]

Pretty much everyone accepts my theory now.

I am not so sure of that:

There are four levels of the theory:

1. The anthrax did not come from the USA.
2. The anthrax came from Iraq.
3. The anthrax came from Iraq and was intended for blackmail.
4. The anthrax was intended for blackmail and Saddam was in charge of 09-11-01.
5. The anthrax was for blackmail
.....and Saddam has been in charge of every terrorist operation since 1993.

Almost everyone accepts Level 1.
However, the full Satanic theory is Level 5
and I do not believe it is yet accepted by everybody.

[Allan]

Sorry can't count 5 levels to climb to reach the Satanic summit.

[Allan]

Okay, any votes for Henry Niman's "rogue scientist" theory here? Any takers?

You won't get a reply from H K.
But give Illbay and freeperfromnj a try.

[txhurl]

You would be a most entertaining Secretary of State. "%#ck'em!!.. like to see you in front of the mikes.

[niman]

TGS, among others here, has laid down his argument quite persuasively. I'd like to hear yours.

Mine is pretty simple. The Ames strain of anthrax used had a unique distinguishing marker, which was a stretch of 35 A's in its poly A tract on plasmid pX02. No one has demonstrated this version outside of the US. Natural Ames has only been isolated in Texas, once from a cow in 1980 and from a goat in 1997. The attack anthrax doesn't match the goat, but it is an EXACT match of the material at USAMRIID.

There is absolutly NO DATA indicating Iraq has Ames with 35 A's. It's starter cultures from ATCC in 1986 did NOT include Ames. In fact ATCC has NEVER distributed Ames. Iraq was not successful in get Ames from Porton Down either and the genomic sequence of two isolates from Porton Down do NOT match the attack anthrax.

In addition to the lack of evidence of ANY Ames in Iraq's hands, there is the simple fact that three TINY batches were used in the 2001 mailings. The first mailing of Sept 18 ONLY produced cutaneous anthrax. As bioweapons go, it was GARBAGE. The reason GARBAGE was mailed to NYC was because the mailer did not have time to weaponize or refine it. The AMI material was a bit better and the best stuff went to DC. However, as a WMD it was a dismal failure (unless the M stands for minimal).

The mailings in 2001 were the work or one or two US scientists looking to make a statement and I exect to hear another statement from one or both VERY soon. I think the next statement will be GUILTY as charged.

We are now in an end game and it has NOTHING to do with Iraq, Al Qaeda, or anything outside of the US. It's pure domestic and everyone will be reading about it VERY soon.

[niman]

Do we have any takers for the theory that the anthrax letters were actually a US-sponsored terrorist attack on itself?

Mort,

I certainly have never said the attack was US sponsored. The attack used US made material, but it certainly wasn't sponsored by the US. If anyone should know that, it would be you.

[niman]

Almost everyone accepts Level 1.

Please. Cite ONE example of Ames with 35 A's identified outside of the US. I know of NONE.

[niman]

, too since it has been apparently been well distributed to labs all over the world

Please name ONE lab outside of the US with Ames anthrax and 35 A's which is and an EXACT match to the attack anthrax.

It has been proven that Ames from USAMRIID is an EXACT match.

It has also been proven that two Ames isolates from Porton Down do NOT match the attack anthrax.

[Allan]

Keri,
are you interested in replying to the gobbledegook
in #291 and #293?
(perhaps it is not worth the effort).

[niman]

"rogue US government scientist theory"

I think the Morton D Ballard / Louis Mason theory is gaining in currency.

[niman]

Any of you believe that the anthrax came from anywhere but Iraq?

Mort, Can you cite ONE publication showing Ames with 35 A's outside of the US? looks like many have swallowed the attack story hook line and sinker.

I thought you were a scientists Please give a scientific explanation of why you think Iraq has Ames when there is NO DATA.

Do real scientists go around spouting such nonsense with NO DATA?

[niman]

Why mention it at all EXCEPTING that the writer (printer) was ON Penicillin.

Please. Penacillin is NOT the antibiotic of choice for B anthracis. Resistance van be induced VERY easily. The letters were printed to deceive, both on the message and handwriting side and BOTH have failed miserably. I expect you will be reading about this VERY soon.

[The Great Satan]

I certainly have never said the attack was US sponsored.

To: The Great Satan

"I'm not going to talk about a state sponsor," Tenet assured them. "It's good that we don't," said Cheney, "because we're not ready to do anything about it."

Wasn't the US the "State Sponsor" in the anthrax attacks?

13 posted on 01/17/2003 4:39 PM PST by niman

[The Great Satan]

I expect you will be reading about this VERY soon.

ROFLMAO! Weren't you saying that on anthrax_fans a year ago?