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Could this voyage have demonstrated Eratosthenes' theorem that the world was round, and measured approximately 24,500 miles in circumference?

The Egyptian scientists were nearly 1,700 years ahead of everybody else .... Except, perhaps, the ancient Chinese. So why are they so backward today?

Oh, the answer is found in their Islamic faith. Silly me.

Click the excerpt link above to see very intriguing diagrams, ancient charts and photos.

1 posted on 01/12/2003 11:19:24 AM PST by ex-Texan
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To: ex-Texan
I've always thought the Egyptians knew plenty mankind has since forgotten. I have this strange feeling that those pyramids are pointing to something really, really important. Maybe some future meteor storm or something.

Interesting article.

2 posted on 01/12/2003 11:27:58 AM PST by lds23
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To: ex-Texan
Great post!
Thanks.
3 posted on 01/12/2003 11:28:15 AM PST by Publius6961
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To: ex-Texan
Neat article. You're right. The Islamists ought to be embarrassed by things like this. They seem obsessed with going back in time.


Silly Arabs.

<{;o)
4 posted on 01/12/2003 11:28:27 AM PST by EggsAckley
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To: ex-Texan
Gee whiz, fella', the Egyptians were Christianized long before the Moslems appeared in Arabia, and that was AFTER the earlier "Greek" period, and after the "Roman" period.

So, the question is, who destroyed Egypt and all it's skills and knowledge? Was it the Greeks, the Romans, the Christians, the Moslems?

5 posted on 01/12/2003 11:38:40 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: ex-Texan
Considering that 20% of the mummies (through hair samples) came up hot for cocaine and then there is the Bay of Jars closed archeological site in Brazil....there was trade back then...and go figure...it was a drug trade.
6 posted on 01/12/2003 11:45:17 AM PST by Stavka2
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To: ex-Texan
These methods were never worth a damn. If you're interested in the discovery of an accurate method for determining longitude, a good primer is Longitude by Dava Sobel
7 posted on 01/12/2003 11:54:48 AM PST by SAMS
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To: ex-Texan
Eratosthenes was a Greek from Cyrene, not an Egyptian. His attempt to calculate the circumference of the earth is well-known, but he was not the first to realize that the earth is a sphere, and I have never heard of this supposed attempt to send a team to circumnavigate the earth. I would be very suspicious of any magazine that publishes things written by Lyndon LaRouche.
10 posted on 01/12/2003 12:03:10 PM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: ex-Texan
Celestial bodies used as a clock: a clock of some kind is needed to determine longitude.

Gen 1:14 . . . lights in the firmament . . . let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

Whoever translated this dropped an extra comma into his parallel construction and nearly destroyed it, but the intent could be that the stars and planets were intended to be used to tell time, and were so used many years B.C. at the time the Books of Moses were written.

11 posted on 01/12/2003 12:06:49 PM PST by RightWhale
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To: ex-Texan
I never heard of Rata and Maui. That could be OK. I search on Rata, Maui, and Eratosthenes and get nine hits, LaRouchies and Cold-Fusioneers predominating. That's not so good. More people should have heard of this. It's an apocryphal story, the main evidence for which seems to be a Maori legend and an inscription of which most of the scholarly world seems unaware.
20 posted on 01/12/2003 1:51:19 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: ex-Texan
read later
21 posted on 01/12/2003 2:00:46 PM PST by LiteKeeper
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To: ex-Texan
The Egyptian scientists were nearly 1,700 years ahead of everybody else .... Except, perhaps, the ancient Chinese. So why are they so backward today?

Because in 232 BC, they were Greek.
29 posted on 01/12/2003 3:56:46 PM PST by aruanan
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To: ex-Texan
Far too many people on Free Republic are historically illiterate. These were not Egyptians, they were Greeks; all of the scientists in Egypt during the Hellenistic period were either from Greece, or were people from other parts of the ancient world who used Greek as their common language of learning.

This was a product of Greek science, not Egyptian. Egyptian culture was entirely stagnant during the Hellenistic period, but for thousands of years prior to this, it lead the world, along with the Babylonian/Sumerian civilization.

Notice, you Islam-bashers and Christian chauvinists, that these Greeks, Egyptians, Babylonians, and Sumerians, were all pagan. And they had the most advanced sciences and arts and culture of the world during their time. Islam also once lead the world in science, culture, and the arts. The West is now on top, but that is not gauranteed to last forever, and has little to do with Christianity - the West having hardly anything to do with Christianity anymore.

In other words, the wheel turns.

All you gloaters are the same in every age: ignorant fools, taking credit for things not of your own doing, living off the seed corn that was laid in store by your more energetic and foresighted ancestors.

36 posted on 01/12/2003 5:34:11 PM PST by Vast Buffalo Wing Conspiracy
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To: ex-Texan
Great post. I'm inspired to look into this further. Thanks.
37 posted on 01/12/2003 5:42:58 PM PST by Robert Drobot
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To: White Mountain; CubicleGuy; Utah Girl; pseudogratix; rising tide; Grig; Edward Watson; Illbay
CTR
39 posted on 01/12/2003 6:52:32 PM PST by restornu
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To: ex-Texan
Bump
46 posted on 01/12/2003 7:51:09 PM PST by Fiddlstix (Wanted: Used "Tag Lines" in good condition. Top prices paid for Quality. Inquire Within.)
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To: ex-Texan
Bump for later reading
51 posted on 01/12/2003 8:49:28 PM PST by Orion78 (I hope Golitsyn is wrong)
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To: ex-Texan
BTTT for a later read
54 posted on 01/12/2003 11:08:48 PM PST by Mr_Magoo (Single, Available, and Easy)
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To: ex-Texan
Equatorial-torquetum

56 posted on 01/12/2003 11:21:17 PM PST by Consort
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To: ex-Texan
Time, I guess, for a post that addresses the main topic. Could the Ancients determine longitude, and if so, how?

Please note that I regard the "expedition" as fantasy, it is the engineering that interests me.

First, it is almost certain that the Hellenistic Age did know how to measure longitude, because we have maps that prove it. Or, at least, copies of those maps. The most famous - or infamous - is probably the Piri Reis map discussed in Charles Hapgood's fascinating book Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings, but there are better examples.

The Dulcert Portolano of 1339 is in my opinion the best, because it contains fewer copying errors than most, mesured by islands, rivers, estuaries etc. It could not have been produced in the Middle Ages - their idea of a map is the Mappa mundi in Hereford Cathedral, 1289 or so.

So an earlier civilization drew the original portolano, which is further indicated by some features of the map, for example the Guadalquivir is shown with an estuary, as it was in Greek times, rather than a delta. I don't buy Hapgood's thesis that the map makers came from Atlantis, so that leaves the Ancients.

Now, the average error in longitude on the Dulcert Portolano is about 45 minutes arc, three quarters of a degree, or at that latitude about 40 nautical miles. Good enough for point-to-point navigation.

So yes, they did it. But how?

Not with a marine chronometer, that's also pretty certain. No such device is described in the texts, and all we know of ancient clocks says they could not have kept accurate time on a moving vessel. That had to wait until Harrison's time.

That leaves a natural clock, and the obvious first choice is the moon. Would it work?

The math is simple. The moon revolves once around the Earth in 30 days, which is 12 degrees a day or 30 minutes arc an hour. The Earth rotates once in 24 hours, which is 15 degrees an hour or one degree in 4 minutes.

Therefore, to measure longitude accurate to one degree, you need to measure time accurate to 4 minutes. If you are measuring time by tracking the moon against the fixed stars, well, in 4 minutes it moves just 2 minutes arc, one-thirtieth of a degree, or, if you prefer, just one-fifteenth of its own diameter.

Could you do that with naked-eye observation? Absolutely not. Working with the largest and best astronomical instruments ever built, at Uraniborg on the island of Hveen, the great Tycho de Brahe could achieve only half that accuracy.

So you need a faster-running clock, or a telescope, or both. From Heron of Alexandria's Catoptrica, we know the Ancients understood enough of the science of optics to build telescopes, and from Herodotus we have mention of an instrument that sounds very like a telescope, but alas there is no direct proof or "smoking tube".

And if you have a telescope, you will find in the sky as fine a clock as you would ever need: the Galilean satellites of Jupiter. That's my best guess as to how they did it.

58 posted on 01/12/2003 11:53:12 PM PST by John Locke
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To: ex-Texan
bump
63 posted on 01/13/2003 5:29:22 AM PST by Centurion2000 (Darth Crackerhead)
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