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To: delacoert
The thing you ignore is, that the stop was no longer a felony stop once all the bad tourists were handcuffed and kneeling on the ground.
The situation was defused at that point.
The next course of action was to secure the scene, ie ensure the dogs did not get out and cause a traffic accident or worse.
They had time during the handcuffing procedure to also secure the vehicle, they chose not to, for whatever reason.
To now argue that because the dog resembled a pit bull and thus OK to kill on sight is making your arguement asinine, IMO.
Well judge, it looked like a Pit Bull and it looked like it was going to bite me so I killed it won't work for you and it shouldn't work for him.
627 posted on 01/12/2003 12:03:34 PM PST by dtel (Texas Longhorn cattle for sale at all times. We don't rent pigs)
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To: dtel
The thing you ignore is, that the stop was no longer a felony stop once all the bad tourists were handcuffed and kneeling on the ground.

The thing YOU ignore is that the according to ALL the officers' statements and the videotape, the officers were STILL handcuffing Brandon, the last person out of the car, when the dog left the car. In fact, officer Hall had just stepped forward to hand the handcuffing officer HIS pair of handcuffs and as he stepped back, the dog got out. The scene was not yet secure... nor is a felony stop concluded until the police are sure there is no more threat. Until they search the station wagon, they do not even know if there is anyone still in the car hiding under what might appear to be luggage in the reat compartment.

Secondly, any DOG, whether a pit bull or Fifi the poodle, can inflict a dangerous bite, they are carnivores and instictively, predators. A pitbull can break your leg with its bite.

Finally, the dog was NOT SHOT ON SIGHT... it was shot only when it jumped at officer Hall.

Well judge, it looked like a Pit Bull and it looked like it was going to bite me so I killed it won't work for you and it shouldn't work for him.

It WILL work for you and for Officer Hall. If you are in fear of injury or death you are allowed to defend yourself... you are not required under law to wait for that injury before defending yourself.

631 posted on 01/12/2003 12:35:06 PM PST by Swordmaker
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To: dtel
The thing you ignore is, that the stop was no longer a felony stop...

When I look at the various video clips and observe the action and the time stamp, here is what I see

17:18:36 - The driver (James) is standing with his hands up next to the driver side of the car and is backing up. No one else is visible.

17:19:17 - James is kneeling behind the car and is not handcuffed. Passenger(s) getting out and raising hands.

17:20:33 - One trooper is kneeling beside James Smoak and apparently still handcuffing him. The other two Smoaks are kneeling and appear to be handcuffed.

17:20:36 - The dog is seen after having jumped from the car.

17:20:40 - Officer Hall is seen shooting the dog. All the Smoaks are up with officers trying to restrain them.

It's not that I'm ignoring anything, it's that I never considered for a moment that the felony stop was complete. In fact no one else I know about has said they thought the stop was over when the dog was shot.

642 posted on 01/12/2003 1:55:42 PM PST by delacoert
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