Report - First human clone born - It's a girl

AFP via Babelfish ^ | December 27, 2002

[HAL9000]

Birth of a small girl obtained by cloning, according to the sect of the raéliens

Friday December 27, 2002 - 1h49 GMT

MIAMI (the United States), 26 déc (AFP) - the scientist Frenchwoman and member of the sect of the raéliens Brigitte Boisselier affirmed Thursday evening with the AFP to have put at the world a baby obtained by the technique of the cloning.

The baby, a small girl, came in the world "today" (Thursday) by Caesarean. "Ca they passed very well", was restricted to affirm Mrs. Boisselier, president of the company of human cloning Clonaid, joined by telephone in Miami (Florida, south-east of the United States).

The effort of the raéliens to put at the world the first cloné baby having been realized in the greatest secrecy, it was not possible, in the absence of a scientific publication in the code of practice, to obtain for the moment an unspecified independent scientific confirmation that the baby was well a clone.

Questioned on the circumstances of this birth, it scientific Frenchwoman refused to give further information immediately more, in particular the birthplace.

"I prefer not in saying more for the moment", has it says, by adding that it would make a public presentation Friday in Florida.

It did not specify either if it would introduce the baby at this occasion.

November 27, Mrs. Boisselier had indicated to the AFP that this birth was awaited by an American couple.

If this birth were confirmed of independent scientific source, it would be about the first baby obtained by the discussed technique of the human cloning and whose birth will have been publicly announced.

[CheneyChick]

P.S. I'm with ya on the sick feeling in my stomach.

[anniegetyourgun]

If this is true, we have attempted another tower of Babel. Before that, we bought the lie of being 'like God' in the Garden. In fact, all previous attempts at this elevation of man by man to the status of God have come to a bad end. This one will too.

[mommadooo3]

I wonder if this 'clone' would be labeled as an 'immaculate conception'.

If this 'mother' has ANY human emotions, I pity her.....because if this 'child' follows the 'length of life', like the sheep did, this 'mother' will soon be mourning the death of her 'baby'.

[Hank Kerchief]

How about that sword that separates and divides asunder soul from spirit?

I usually avoid these discussions, because they are so often unfruitful, but your questions seems sincere and I will try to provide a short sincere answer.

The following verses are examples of how the word "soul" is generally used in the Bible:

Gen. 46:15 These be the sons of Leah, which she bare unto Jacob in Padanaram, with his daughter Dinah: all the souls of his sons and his daughters were thirty and three.

Exodus 1:5 And all the souls that came out of the loins of Jacob were seventy souls: for Joseph was in Egypt already.

Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Acts 7:14 Then sent Joseph, and called his father Jacob to him, and all his kindred, threescore and fifteen souls.

Acts 27:37 And we were in all in the ship two hundred threescore and sixteen souls.

In general, the word "soul" means the same as "person" or "one's self" and the world "self" (himself, herself, yourself) and "soul" can often be exchanged, as they are in the following:

If you compare the following passages, you will see that Luke uses the word "himself" to refer to the very same thing Matthew amd Mark use the world "soul" to refer to:

Mat. 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Mark 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

Luke 9:25 For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away?

Now, in the passage you referred to:

Heb. 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

If we understand the "soul" to be a living person, and the spirit is what gives the flesh life, dividing soul and spirit would mean separating life from the flesh, which would mean the person would die, or cease to be a soul. The soul cannot be separated from a person because it is the person.

This may be too long, and you need not agree with it, but it is clear to me that is what the Bible teaches, although most theologians seem very confused on this (and most other) issues.

Hank

[spectre]

I agree her hair needs "help", but more so, her attitude of extreme jubiliation is making me sick.

The baby was born Dec. 26th by choice. If it had been born Dec. 25th, the Doctor would have never been able to stand up to Christian outrage, which should be forthcoming anyway.

sw

[sweetliberty]

The articles say nothing that would be typical to say after a birth, such as the condition of the baby girl or how the mother is doing. I don't even recall that a birth weight was given. This "child" is referred to in every way, as nothing more than a science project. Tragic. If this is true, I fear no good can come of it.

[BenLurkin]

Please see Post 156 by Dimensio. While our fellow FReeper might adopt a more respectful tone, Dimensio does hit the nail right on the head in pointing out that identical twins result from the splitting of a single blastocyst - after the moment of conception. Similarly clones are twins. There is no reason why God would make an exception in their case from the well established tri-partite every human's make-up: body, mind, and soul.

[spectre]

If one twin gets cancer, the other twin is monitored. We knew two little twin boys who died of Leukemia, one right after the other.

So what happens if this 31 year old Mother gets Breast Cancer or MS or some other disease, say in about 10 years?

If the child survives this long, then how does the Mother explain to the little girl, dubbed "Eve" that her fate is the same?

It's wrong.

sw

[RGSpincich]

what the heck happened to her hair? meow

I like my scientists a little on the trashy side. : )

[PetroniDE]

They cloned a human like I've been banging Anna Kournikova

You have? Can I get a copy, please?

[End The Hypocrisy]

One could say the same of the (first) Test Tube Baby during the late 1970's but she turned out fine (as have thousands if not millions since her).

For a related discussion on this new cloning announcement:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/812911/posts

[mommadooo3]

This report seems too full of holes. Maybe the 'baby' died on exiting the host's body.

I guess I'm too dense headed to believe this story. I STILL hold to the idea that God would never allow success in 'cloning'. 'Cuz then the idea of being 'fearfully and wonderfully made', the knitting together, the Him knowing us before we were formed, all would 'point' to Him allowing His glory to be given to another.

How's THAT for being naieve? (bad spelling to boot!)

[4Freedom]

Saddam's definitely at the top of the list of megalomaniacal, madmen that would clone themselves by the thousands.

[mewzilla]

Follow the money. Some flatfeet somewhere should be looking into this.

[PaxMacian]

Jeremiah 1:5
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Psalm 139:13
For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.
14 :
I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.
15 :
My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16 :
Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

Galatians 1:15
But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,…

Isaiah 49:1 :
Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.

Matthew 18:5
And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.

Deuteronomy 30:19
"I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and
death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live."

[Puddleglum]

The real question is,...does it have a soul or spirit?

If not then does it become a body available to unbodied spirits? I am no theologian but I think God would not deny a soul to a human being based on man's folly. I always hope for the divine comedy to turn the product of science against the scientists. I think the soul will be dead when language and free will are bred out of us/them. When you raise human cattle for organs/slavery, however, I fear that milestone is not far beyond the horizon.

[Petronski]

How can you order one? Can you get one that is about 22, so you don't have to wait for them to go through childhood and adolesence?

Of course, car insurance rates fall abruptly when the driver gets married. If she were twenty two and, say, five-foot-eight and brunette...aw, nevermind.

[Onelifetogive]

If the child survives this long, then how does the Mother explain to the little girl, dubbed "Eve" that her fate is the same?

DUH! This is done for many, many medical conditions (parent - child) today. This is trying to contrive an issue to feign horror about. The birth of a "clone" is just slightly more astounding than the birth of identical twins. It's identical twins 20-30 years apart.

All of the talk about souls, living one's life again, etc is crap. It's like saying twins are one person living in two bodies. BS. Twins are two people (two souls) with thew same genetic code. So are clones.

What would be really amazing would be taking the genetic codes from two people and combining them to make a new person. Come to think of it, that's what my wife and I did this morning.

[theFIRMbss]

>I STILL hold to the idea that God would never allow success in 'cloning'

Genesis 6:9 --
This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations. Noah walked with God.

Luke 17:26 --
And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Scripture directly
tells us that in Noah's time
his "generations"

differed somehow from
everyone else. Now we have
for the very first

time in history
human beings on the planet
whose "generations"

will be "different"
from "normal" human beings.
Are these the End Times?

No one really knows
what the phrase "perfect in his
generations" means.

But clearly God "let"
something happen way back then
which separated

the mass of humans
from Noah. Something about
"generations" and

it wasn't something
good. If God let that occur,
God will allow clones.

God is desperate
to get us to recognize
how much we need Him.