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To: Paul Atreides
This evening I tried to reason with a Clinton lover, but was unable to make any headway. This individual never hesitates to slander a Republican. I would appreciate any assistance you might be able to offer is forming a rational response. The letter I received is below:



I have a file copy of a letter that I wrote some time back, praising and defending Bill Clinton, and I do not hesitate to send it, in reply to anyone who criticizes Clinton, especially when they do it to irritate me! Usually, they never again Criticize Clinton to me!

During the administration of William Jefferson Clinton, the U.S. enjoyed more peace and economic well being than at any time in its history. He was the first Democratic president since Franklin D. Roosevelt to win a second term. He could point to the lowest unemployment rate in modern times, the lowest inflation in 30 years, the highest home ownership in the country's history, dropping crime rates in most places, and vastly reduced welfare roles. He proposed the first balanced budget in decades, and actually achieved a budget surplus. As part of a plan to celebrate the millennium in 2000, Clinton called for a great national initiative to end racial discrimination. After the Republican Congress defeated his proposal for a huge program of health care reform, Clinton shifted emphasis, declaring "the era of big government is over." He sought legislation to upgrade education, to protect jobs of parents who must care for sick children, to restrict handgun sales, and to strengthen environmental rules. In 1998, as a result of issues surrounding personal indiscretions with a young woman White House intern, Clinton was the second U.S. president to be impeached by the House of Representatives. But he was tried in the Senate and found not guilty of the charges brought against him. He apologized to the nation for his actions and he continues to this day, to have unprecedented popular approval ratings for his job as president. In the world, he successfully dispatched peace keeping forces to war-torn Bosnia; He bombed Iraq, when Saddam Hussein stopped United Nations inspections for evidence of nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons. He became a global proponent for an expanded NATO, more open international trade, and a worldwide campaign against drug trafficking. He drew huge crowds when he traveled through South America, Europe, Russia, Africa, and China, advocating U.S. style freedom. Under Clinton's leadership, the United States was able to reduce military spending, since we did not need a large military. We had so few enemies, because we had allies instead of enemies.. Israel and the Palestinians were talking peace, and hostilities were limited.. Peace was achieved through diplomacy instead of threats and a huge arms buildup. Clinton's flights abroad kept the United States at the forefront as a peacemaker and as an effective negotiator.
Under this present administration, our "excess tax money " has recently been "returned" to our nation's wealthiest citizens. Our present unsound fiscal policy should be a wonderful gift to our grandchildren. Our hopes for eliminating the national debt were dashed with the election of Bush, who at once set out to cut taxes for the wealthy, and increase military spending to an unbelievable record level. It seems that the old method of diplomacy to achieve peace, has now been replaced with a philosophy of superior military power, as a means for enforcing this nation's policy as defined by the president. This aggressive policy has alienated many of our allies, who now consider the USA as a country that threatens world peace, under the guise of fighting terrorism. Not only have our foreign relationships suffered serious decline under Bush, but our National economy continues to deteriorate, as unemployment, bankruptcies, foreclosures, and Corporate Insecurity are constantly a major national problem. World peace is now in jeopardy, as threatened by the global goals of George W. Bush.





18 posted on 12/22/2002 8:38:14 PM PST by beethoven
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To: beethoven
You should point out to your poor misled friend that any real good that was accomplished under Clintoon's "reign" was largely the result of having a Republican congress.

As recent events would now confirm it would appear that a good share of the so-called unprecedented economic performance was due to widespread financial reporting fraud that occurred under Clintoon's watch, and was discovered under W's. As a former federal employee I can attest to the fact that virtually every government agency fudges their books and reports, and as most government employees vote for the RATS, it does not stretch credulity to believe they would fudge certain vital statistical data to enhance their boss's agenda.

BTW, in a 1991 graduate finance class I predicted the future economic performance would be driven by political manipulation, not actual performance. How did I know that? Not by my superior knowledge of finance, economics, or accounting, but by my knowledge of democrats and government employees.
19 posted on 12/22/2002 9:02:28 PM PST by Auntie Dem
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To: beethoven
With regard to your friend's letter pertaining to clinton's impeachment, clinton was, and remains impeached. The Senate did not find him not-guilty of the charges as the impeachment wasn't a set of charges but rather a conclusion based on the charges the Senate failed to even hear. The Senate's job was not to determine guilt or innocence but to decide to remove or retain the employee - they chose to keep him. He remains impeached, and it is really a fun tweak to call to him as "the impeached former president" whenever referring to him in conversation with liberals.
20 posted on 12/22/2002 9:50:52 PM PST by Sgt_Schultze
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To: beethoven
I am not an expert on economic issues. I wish that I could help you, but I feel that it will take cold hard facts to refute the person of whom you speak. I don't know how or where to get a hold of such facts. I am on your side, it's just that I am not the person to ask. I hope that someone comes along who can help, because I would really like for a Clinton-lover to be shut up.
21 posted on 12/22/2002 10:05:35 PM PST by Paul Atreides
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To: beethoven
Our hopes for eliminating the national debt were dashed with the election of Bush, who at once set out to cut taxes for the wealthy, and increase military spending to an unbelievable record level.

Somehow, I don't think that you will have much luck talking with this moron.

24 posted on 12/22/2002 10:10:06 PM PST by Paul Atreides
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To: beethoven
As to clinton's impact on US security, the damage he did is incalculable. In his global quest for campaign cash, for a paltry $100,000 clinton permitted his friend at Loral corp to sell technology to the Chinese that enabled them to add MIRV capabilities to their ICBM's under development. On their own, the Chinese might have spent 10 to 20 years perfecting such capabilities. Due to clinton's greed, our advantage from literally trillions of dollars spent in missile development over 50 years were wiped out in an afternoon for a lousy hundred grand donation.

Tell your friend, thanks to his vote, his great grandchildren will be paying to buy back that advantage.

26 posted on 12/22/2002 10:27:50 PM PST by Sgt_Schultze
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To: beethoven
President Clinton endorsed policies that resulted in the incarceration of more Black men than ever before in any 8-year period in American history. More Black men were put in jail under President Clinton than under Presidents Reagan and Bush (43) combined. President Clinton ended the welfare program that Black leaders vociferously argued was necessary to keep a firm safety net in place. And when the talk of "mending" affirmative action arose; it was President Bill Clinton, who, from the White House led the way. President Clinton made an absolute fool of Rev. Jackson - at the civil rights leader's own convention - and demonized a Black woman and pillar of the Hip-Hop community, Sister Souljah, in order to show White America that he would not be under the influence of the wishes of the Black electorate or its leaders.(1)

Nineteen members of the Congressional Black Caucus charged the Democratic Party with racism in its hiring practices and issue prioritization. The text of an article concerning that, as it appeared in The Final Call online on May 22, 2001.(2)

GDP has grown consistently and almost linearly over the past 50 years. Recessions have occurred at roughly ten year intervals as marked on the graph (1958, 1970, 1975, 1982, 1992). The one exception is the mid 1970s recession. President Clinton enjoyed no more economic well being than another President during the mid-10 year cycle.(3)

The economy fell off a cliff in the third quarter of 2000, with the annualized growth in the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) dropping from 4.8% to 0.6%. Considering that the nation had seen a decade-long economic expansion, that the business cycle had not been repealed, that the Federal Reserve had raised interest rates six times in the previous two years, that the stock market had been dropping since March, and that the regulatory excesses of the second Clinton term had to bite into the economy at some point, it seemed pretty obvious a recession was on the way.(4)

President Clinton enacted the most aggressive international use of the military in "low intensity" combat and "operations other than war" than any other President in history. At the same time he , he reduced the military by 600,000 personnel and increased operational use of the military. By 1999 the Clinton administration had undertaken a record-setting 48 peace enforcement and combat missions. Many of those missions —for example, U.S. deployments to Bosnia and Kosovo—have little or nothing to do with U.S. vital interests.(5) As a result of this military interventionalism without a clear foriegn policy goal or direction, the United States has engendered deep hatred among many Muslims, while allowing dangerous dictators to violate treaties and grow in power.

Hope that helps as a start ...

28 posted on 12/22/2002 10:37:45 PM PST by optimistically_conservative
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To: beethoven
During the administration of William Jefferson Clinton, the U.S. enjoyed more peace and economic well being than at any time in its history. It was a phony peace which is now beginning to be evident. North Korea did not abandon a nuclear program. Five FBI agents working full time on Islamic terrorism after OKC was criminal dereliction of duty. 9-11 happened because Clinton misdirected his FBI to go after "right wing" domestic terrorists. Tim McVeigh was an anomoly. We are not far from seeing the definite proof of the Iraqi connection at OKC. The economy runs in cycles. Any CEO of a Fortune 500 company could have run the economy -- we didn't need a rapist criminal to do it. We didn't need a guy who allowed our missile secrets to be sold to the ChiComs and then accepted a bribe from Bernie Schwartz to keep him out of prison. If Clinton was the only Democrat who could have presided over an economy that was on the upswing in George Bush's last two quarters, then the Democrat Party should never again nominate a presidential candidate. As we have seen with the failure of the dot coms, much of the economy was smoke and mirrors. George Bush is picking up the pieces of the disaster and going after the cheating execs. Even the federal government was using phony numbers.

He was the first Democratic president since Franklin D. Roosevelt to win a second term. So what? He could point to the lowest unemployment rate in modern times, the lowest inflation in 30 years, the highest home ownership in the country's history, dropping crime rates in most places, and vastly reduced welfare roles. Thanks largely to the beginning of a long-term economic growth cycled, created by the economic policies of Ronald Reagan, we reaped economic benefits because when people keep more of their own money they start businesses and employ people. Lower capital gains cause people to build buildings. Shorter depreciation causes businesses to invest in capital equipment, giving jobs to those who manufacture the equipment, those providing raw materials, and everyone in the distribution of the equipment. The crime rate dropped because of actions such as "Three Strikes" in California.

He proposed the first balanced budget in decades, and actually achieved a budget surplus. The budget would have been balanced much earlier had the Democrats given what Republican presidents have wanted for a long time -- a line item veto. As part of a plan to celebrate the millennium in 2000, Clinton called for a great national initiative to end racial discrimination. Check out the 1989 lawsuit by black legislator Ben McGee against Governor Clinton and other officials. Ask the black woman who had the child he fathered if he has taken care of his son. Clinton uses black people as he has used any group he thinks will give him a political benefit.

After the Republican Congress defeated his proposal for a huge program of health care reform, Clinton shifted emphasis, declaring "the era of big government is over." Unbelievable lie. We live in different universes.

He sought legislation to upgrade education, to protect jobs of parents who must care for sick children, to restrict handgun sales, and to strengthen environmental rules. Upgrading education means playing ball with the teachers unions. They only have an interest in doing what is best for them. Look at the state of our public schools. They are disasters in many areas, yet they oppose vouchers. Restricting handgun sales, as proven by John Lott ("More Guns, Less Crime") has actually been detrimental.

In 1998, as a result of issues surrounding personal indiscretions with a young woman White House intern, Clinton was the second U.S. president to be impeached by the House of Representatives. Personal indiscretions? Rape is not a personal indiscretion. Intimidation of witnesses is not a person indiscretion. Solicitation of false affidavits is not a personal indiscretion. Perjury is not a personal indiscretion. Introducing a false affidavit to the court is not a personal indiscretion. Giving a "troubled stalker" top secret clearance at the Pentagon is not a personal indiscretion. Suborning perjury is not a personal indiscretion. Getting aides to lie and cover for him is not a personal indiscretion. Using government assets and attorneys paid by U.S. taxpayers to cover his criminal activity is not a personal indiscretion. Attempting to fix a federal civil rights trial is not a personal indiscretion. Creating a hostile workplace in which compliant women are rewarded is not a personal indiscretion. Giving government jobs for sex is not a personal indiscretion. But he was tried in the Senate and found not guilty of the charges brought against him. He apologized to the nation for his actions and he continues to this day, to have unprecedented popular approval ratings for his job as president. He never fully apologized. He was only sorry he got caught. He continues to blame his "enemies" for his troubles. Instead of doing his job, he used a federal workplace during business hours to satisfy his perverse desires.

In the world, he successfully dispatched peace keeping forces to war-torn Bosnia; He bombed Iraq, when Saddam Hussein stopped United Nations inspections for evidence of nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons. He lobbed a few bombs (to essentially keep Monica off the front page), but until George Bush took action, there were several years in which there were no inspections and he did nothing about it. During that time, Hussein was working on his chemical, nuclear, and biological programs.

He became a global proponent for an expanded NATO, more open international trade, and a worldwide campaign against drug trafficking. Ask L.D. Brown what Clinton did to stop drugs from coming into Mena. Remember "That's Lasater's deal." Republicans before Clinton, the same Republicans who are responsible for the fall of the Soviet Union, were for an expanded NATO. Increased international trade has been a Republican issue for years. Finally, we had a Republican Congress to not stand in the way of its implementation.

He drew huge crowds when he traveled through South America, Europe, Russia, Africa, and China, advocating U.S. style freedom. He want there and played to big crowds because he is an apologist for America. His only desire is to be admired like a rock star.

Under Clinton's leadership, the United States was able to reduce military spending, since we did not need a large military. This is a huge problem which had to be faced by President Bush. The man who told us he loathed the military proved it every day of his administration. We had so few enemies, because we had allies instead of enemies.. Nonsense. He was a foreign policy failure because he had no moral compass which allowed him to distinguish between good and evil. During his term, our allies did not trust us, and our enemies did not fear us.

Israel and the Palestinians were talking peace, and hostilities were limited.. Murdering Yasser Arafat was the most frequent guest at the White House. We are seeing the results of making Arafat believe he was going to be able to eventually push Israel into the sea. Peace was achieved through diplomacy instead of threats and a huge arms buildup. He would apparently be in agreement with Neville Chamberlain who was almost responsible for the destruction of Great Britain. Clinton's flights abroad kept the United States at the forefront as a peacemaker and as an effective negotiator. This fool did not recognize the threat to this nation, even after the first WTC bombing, the embassy bombings, the OKC bombing, and the attack on the USS COLE. He was asleep at the switch while Islamist terrorists were busy around the world. He knew someone else would have to clean up his mess.

Under this present administration, our "excess tax money " has recently been "returned" to our nation's wealthiest citizens. Nonsense. Those who paid taxes had some of the money returned. Our present unsound fiscal policy should be a wonderful gift to our grandchildren. Our hopes for eliminating the national debt were dashed with the election of Bush, who at once set out to cut taxes for the wealthy, and increase military spending to an unbelievable record level. I continue to be amazed at the lack of education in the field of economics. Even John Kennedy proved it, and he proved it well. He cut the tax rate substantially. The result was a phenomenal increase in the amount of taxes collected. Ronald Reagan also proved that cutting the marginal tax rate had tremendous revenue increases for the Treasury. Unfortunately, Reagan did not have a line item veto and the Democratic Congress spent like there was no tomorrow.

It seems that the old method of diplomacy to achieve peace, has now been replaced with a philosophy of superior military power, as a means for enforcing this nation's policy as defined by the president. For those who missed government class, the President of the United States takes an oath to defend this country, not defend the United Nations. Our nation has done more good for more people than any other nation in the history of this planet. When we defeat an enemy, we build them back up and they become a trading partner. There is no greater beacon of freedom than the United States. For that, I will never apologize. This aggressive policy has alienated many of our allies, who now consider the USA as a country that threatens world peace, under the guise of fighting terrorism. Thank God we have a president who can see things in terms of good and evil. Without that ability and the same kind of vision as Sir Winston Churchill, we would be doomed. Not only have our foreign relationships suffered serious decline under Bush, but our National economy continues to deteriorate, as unemployment, bankruptcies, foreclosures, and Corporate Insecurity are constantly a major national problem. The economy was sinking in the last stages of the Clinton administration. Even his own economic advisors admit that is the case. He left a mess. Thanks to Clinton's utter failure to do something serious about the threat of Islamist terrorists, the WTC was hit. It caused a devastating blow to our economy. World peace is now in jeopardy, as threatened by the global goals of George W. Bush. It is time to read a history book, one not created by an idealistic leftist who does not understand the use of power. One country in this world is capable of keeping the peace -- the United States of America. No one else will do it. It is a good thing that there were not too many of you whiners around when it was time to fight Hitler. You would be speaking German, although with the state of the public schools, you would not have been speaking it well. The global goals of George W. Bush were shown in Afghanistan as women who could not show their faces or play music, danced in the streets when Mullah Omar and the Taliban got out of town. Go away you little Clinton kneepad creeps. The adults are again in charge.

29 posted on 12/22/2002 10:43:00 PM PST by doug from upland
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To: beethoven
First of all, this piece seems to have been written for people with the reading comprehension and knowledge level of about a fifth grader, and I suggest you tell your friend so.

dropping crime rates in most places, and vastly reduced welfare roles.

This was due to the Republican Congress' welfare reform. The first two years he was in office before the Republicans' 1994 election victories his party controlled Congress, and he proposed no welfare reform of any kind. Most Democratic members of Congress voted against the legistlation, and he signed it only to help himself get reelected.

He proposed the first balanced budget in decades, and actually achieved a budget surplus

The budget surpluses were largely the result of (1) The fact that his and Hillary's health care proposal was never enacted, and (2) The late nineties stock market boom driven by what is now understood to have been an unsustainable "bubble" based on grossly exagerrated expectations of revenue from the new "internet economy". In other words it was sort of a mirage. This bubble burst in March 2000 while Clinton was still in office, at which point the stock market entered the now three year bear market, taking with it the huge tax revenues it was generating.

He bombed Iraq, when Saddam Hussein stopped United Nations inspections for evidence of nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons.

It was the Clinton administration that completely GAVE UP enforcing weapons inspections. The inspectors were THROWN OUT in 1998 and have returned for the first time since then because the Bush administration is understood to be serious about cracking down with real military force, as opposed to Clinton's nothing response of lobbing a few cruise missiles (largely to take Monica Lewinsky off the front pages) AND THEN FORGETTING ABOUT IT!! Crediting him with bombing Iraq even though IT DID NOTHING is at best stupid and perhaps delusional.

After the Republican Congress defeated his proposal for a huge program of health care reform, Clinton shifted emphasis, declaring "the era of big government is over."

What the above is saying in essence is that you can credit the GOP win in the 1994 election to whatever economic results followed, including budget surpluses. A steady drop in interest rates ensued literally as soon as the Republicans won the 92 election. If you trace long term interest rates' decline in the mid-nineties, it coincides exactly to the Republican victory in the mid-term election.

Under Clinton's leadership, the United States was able to reduce military spending, since we did not need a large military. We had so few enemies, because we had allies instead of enemies..

Without saying so explicitly, the author seems to be suggesting he turned some enemies into friends. It would be nice if the author of this B.S. would name what countries he was talking about. This is a total fantasy. There was no country that was turned from enemy into friend by the Clinton admin. The Soviet Union ceased to exist during the first Bush administration. The nations of eastern Europe who were enslaved by the Soviets and had been officially military opponents were freed also during the Bush administration and became our friends. This all occured largely because of the Reagan administration's policies of getting the Soviets into an arms race they could not sustain, a policy that was bitterly opposed by liberals like Clinton. It was those developments that enabled Clinton to make meat-ax cuts in defense without seeming to pay any price for it, at least not immediately.

Israel and the Palestinians were talking peace, and hostilities were limited.. Peace was achieved through diplomacy instead of threats and a huge arms buildup. Clinton's flights abroad kept the United States at the forefront as a peacemaker and as an effective negotiator.

What peace where was achieved? Again the author of this bizarre piece doesn't say. No peace was achieved in the Middle East. It was during Clinton's last year in office that the situation deteriorated badly in Israel. Clinton's policy was essentially to try to compel Israel to trust and make huge concessions to Yassir Arafat, a corrupt, evil person, while asking him for no concessions of any kind. In Korea, the Clinton administration negotiated a bizarre agreement to give N. Korea a nuclear reactor, and then didn't demand that we could monitor their weapons programs to see whether they were making nuclear warheads. We've recently learned the N. Koreans have been busy making nuclear warheads ever since.

46 posted on 12/23/2002 9:06:31 AM PST by lasereye
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To: beethoven
Simple solution:

Buy and read Ann Coulter's "Slander" and then give/lend it to your friend. The obvious and well documented conclusion is that Clinton supporters (liberals) are either liars or fools. Ask your friend which catagory he/she falls in.

A couple of quickies as all of Clinton's "accomplishments" are smoke and mirrors. (His net impact was a huge negative):

As others have said, his economic numbers were a facade. The illusary stock market was driven by his friends on Wall Street, guided by his ex-Goldman Sachs Secretary of Treasury, Robert Rubin, and a rewriting of the accepted accounting practices which allowed them to falsely state their numbers. There was also false reporting by the government itself to make the economy look better than it was. Clinton took a robust economy that was producing government tax surplusses and turned it into a phoney disaster. As usual, they blame everyone else.

The Oslo Accords were a facade gained at the expense of Israel. The agreement with North Korea was a facade facilitated by Jimmy Carter, another Democrat if your friend doesn't know. Look at the status of both now. If your friend doesn't know, each was immediately violated by the other side.

The invasions in the Balkins were alos a facade based on the trumped up charges of genecide against the Muslims. Clinton threw the power of NATO, basically us, behind the terrorists. He promised they would be home by Christmas, 1999. They are still there.

Clinton vetoed Welfare reform twice before Dick Morris told him the public wanted it. He then signed it and took credit for it.

Clinton, when he was governor, allowed a retarded black man to be executed to show he was tough on crime during the 1992 election campaign. The man wasn't even aware what was happening to him, saying he would finish his last-meal desert when he came back.

Clinton was a small time hustler who made it big as a pawn for others and for his own agrandizement. He then raped and pillaged his way through eight years of the near destruction of the greatest country in the world. His kind can only exist through The Big Lie. Read Ann Coulter and see.

50 posted on 12/23/2002 10:06:44 AM PST by Mind-numbed Robot
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To: beethoven
He mail your friend and challenge them to read the following link. It will give them your message and the replies to it:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/811047/replies?comment=18

59 posted on 12/24/2002 2:54:38 AM PST by Stultis
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To: beethoven
To begin with, he changed the criteria for measuring unemployment, crime and many other indexes to make himself look better. Secondly, he over estimated the projected GNP by hundreds of billions (some ungodly amount, I believe it was over 30% - criminal if done in corporate circles.)

Racism? See this article, and the book Openheimer wrote when Hillary uttered "fu##ing Jew Bastard.

Republicans rejected healthcare? I think you should check the Dems headcount on this...

More money for Education? Did you hear O'Reilly report that the Department of Education cannot account for something like $200 BILLION dollars?

Stregthen environmental rules? The first thing that comes to mind is the multi-million dollar housing development near San Bernardio CA. that was stopped because it endangered some type of fly....

Sexual indiscretion (BS)? He denied a US citizen (Paula Jones) the right to a fair trial by suborning perjury (To Betty Curry - he asks a day before she is deposed, "I was never alone with Monica, was I? - knowing damn well he was because of the blue dress) - Lying under oath -("I was never alone with her in the White House - you didn't say the oval office" and "That depends on what the definition of "is" is. - Oral sex is not sexual relations etc. etc.)

Tried in the Senate ? (BS) If you read Schipper's (the prosecutor) book "SELLOUT" You'll read that our infamous Trent Lott, Daschle and others denied him and the House Managers the right to bring in witnesses to show the country how he lied under oath and should be removed from office. Could the Senate's reluctance to vote against him be from sheer embarrasment for the country, or because of those FBI files Clinton stole when he first entered office.

He interferes in a civil war against a country who does not threaten us, yet allows Iraq (a country that supports terrorism) to kick out the weapons inspectors and does nothing.

Peace was achieved through diplomacy? Sort of like in North Korea where he gave them billions of our tax dollars to build power plants in exchange for them not building any more nukes? Guess what's happening now?

I could go into so much more detail - but this is a perfect example of the liberal media feeding so much BS to those who want an excuse to like Clinton - just like Johnnie Cochran did to the OJ jury.....

Send me Private e-mail if you really want to know how I feel...
60 posted on 12/24/2002 10:17:24 AM PST by M. Peach
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